A step to far?

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
16,070
Post Likes
2,344
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
Bang out of order; especially for the other two officials.

You just don't include the match officials in these sort of things.

:nono:
 

leaguerefaus


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
1,009
Post Likes
248
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
Had a good laugh reading through the report, but would be absolutely filthy if that happened to me. How did the players think that would end well...

All in all, I think the disciplinary action was okay, although I would have liked to have seen at least SOME league points deducted, and not just suspended. The charitable donation seems like a brilliant idea.
 

Browner

Banned
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
6,000
Post Likes
270
Im astounded

1) the charity wasn't humiliated - £500 each to the officials as part of apology
2) someone at ASJ would have had some blood spilled , to indicate my ' absolute lack of consent' !
3) i call the police
4) a detailed plan of how ASJ are going to become the best hosting of referees club in the midlands.
5) all players involved (who are likely still chuckling at the legendary story) being banned for 24 months for the assault

6) ASJ is now added to my 'refuse to referee' club.

Thanks RFU for your pathetically low low end sanction !!!!
 

leaguerefaus


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
1,009
Post Likes
248
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
I have no idea of the size or financial situation of the club, but I assumed £1450 pounds all up would probably be quite a big punishment to the club. I could see the way for harsher punishment, but I think the degree to which Browner is suggesting is too far because it seems there was no malice involved, just a bunch of fools.

I can see why you would get police involvement Browner - I'm not sure if I would or not - it's hard to say without being in the situation (and it's hard to think anything like that will ever happen again!).
 

Taff


Referees in Wales
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
6,942
Post Likes
383
Bang out of order; especially for the other two officials. You just don't include the match officials in these sort of things. :nono:
Along the same lines, I think the Army has an unwritten rule that anyone over a certain rank doesn't get roped into such antics. I suppose if they want to get involved - crack on, but they can't be "forced" into it. Makes sense I suppose.

Im astounded. ... 3) i call the police
Come on; it's hardly a Police matter now is it Browner? They get loads of these petty disputes (eg cats crapping in the neighbours garden, the man across the road who called somebodys husband a Dick, The bloke down the pub owes me a tenner etc etc) and the Police don't get involved. I can just imagine the response.

Ref: Is that the Police station? I'd like a squad car round at X RFC immediately.
Copper: Can you give me some details sir?
Ref: I'm a referee and was having a pint after the game and things ... well ... they errr "got out of hand"
Copper: Go on sir!
Ref: Well officer; they ripped my shreddies off me.
Copper: Some people pay good money for that sort of thing sir.
Ref: You think it's funny do you? I found it very humiliating. They were really beastly to me. I was in agony for hours. Do you want me to show you?
Copper: NO. Err ... No. Please don't do that. I'll take your word for it sir
Ref: Well? What are you going to do about it? They were my best Kalvin Kleins.
Copper: We'll send an armed response car and a couple of alsatians around immediately sir. Dangerous places those rugby clubs. Victim Support will be in touch with you sir.

CLICK
Copper: Sarge? You're not going to believe this! This man claims he's had his skids ripped off him at the rugby club
Sarge: Some people pay good money for that sort of thing Constable. :biggrin:
 
Last edited:

Toby Warren


Referees in England
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
3,431
Post Likes
57
Member of the public

'I've been assaulted'
What happened I was attacked by a group of strangers they pinned me down and forcibly removed my underwear, I feared for my safety and thought I was going to be sexually assaulted -they look like they are going after someone else now

Police car duly dispatched (Coppers with reinforced undies arrive)
 

Browner

Banned
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
6,000
Post Likes
270
Conceptually' army camaraderies' that test 'how far will you go' when your soldier mate might have to kill someone to save your life, is more justifiable than the other end of the spectrum ............ a volunteer referee "not consenting".....

My friends talented son has declined to play for his university 1st xv, because he does not want to undergo the disgusting initiation test that accompanies his selection ! ..... He's now being targeted(aka bullied) for his stance, fortunately he's being well advised and logging all events, I predict some shit hitting the fan inside 12 months! !

As for ASJ, aren't they a leics club, weve seen an example of leic's biggest club respecting officials recently haven't we ?!!!

Everyone has their personal acceptability benchmark, I've merely shared mine with you. The referee is sacrosanct
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,804
Post Likes
3,145
I know a daughter of a friend who played good level netball (county? or whatever they have in netball?) at school, but won't join her uni netball club for similar reasons.
 

dave_clark


Referees in England
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
4,647
Post Likes
104
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
The referee is sacrosanct

On tour in 2004, we got to match day and found out that it was actually a tournament. for which all participating teams had to provide a referee. i was the obvious choice to be our "volunteer".

i was awful. three days on the piss in Budapest will do that to you. nevertheless, none of my (allegedly) shocking decisions, such as disallowing two tries for my club, were even considered for court. ditto an end of season game against one of our local rivals.

a handful of people wanted to (on each occasion), but the more sensible types wouldn't allow it.

i guess the point of this rambling is that, by taking up the whistle, you should be given sufficient respect not to have such things unwillingly thrust upon you. most clubs, and most players, understand and appreciate this. it's a shame that it's not all.
 

beckett50


Referees in England
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
2,514
Post Likes
224
Current Referee grade:
Level 6
The line was crossed BIG time.

One has to question where, whilst all this was on-going, were the members of the Comittee/Club Officers that should have know better and intervened.

If the 'Club tradition' of going "commando" after certain was well known there should be a notice in the referee room so that all referees are aware and can make an informed decision as to whether to VOLUNTARILY enter into the spirit of the event or not. If he/she chooses not to then he/she must neither be forced nor coerced into participating.

I agree that some league points should have been deducted there and then with a balance held is suspense.
 

Wedgie


Referees in England
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
210
Post Likes
30
I empathise for the lack of consent and don't condone this in any way for someone who doesn't want to be involved.

On the other hand, LOL !!.... I have borne my appellated badge of honour for 26 years now which still causes hilarity and confusion in equal measure when mates introduce me to newbies.....though due to the state I was in at the time I don't recall whether I gave consent or not.....:confused:
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,804
Post Likes
3,145
On the BBC website now
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/26367472
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
14,106
Post Likes
2,131
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
If the 'Club tradition' of going "commando" after certain was well known there should be a notice in the referee room so that all referees are aware and can make an informed decision as to whether to VOLUNTARILY enter into the spirit of the event or not. If he/she chooses not to then he/she must neither be forced nor coerced into participating.

That would be a sensible approach. Also a quiet word to the refs as witching hour approaches so they can make a dignified departure or discreet disrobe.
 

Taff


Referees in Wales
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
6,942
Post Likes
383
... My friends talented son has declined to play for his university 1st xv, because he does not want to undergo the disgusting initiation test that accompanies his selection!
I know a daughter of a friend who played good level netball (county? or whatever they have in netball?) at school, but won't join her uni netball club for similar reasons.
I find this sad. My boy has just gone up to Uni last September and decided not to play rugby for the same reason. This is a boy who has played rugby since he was 4, has played U11 and U15 District rugby and ended up in 2 Welsh Youth Cup finals at the Millennium Stadium (won 1 and lost 1) and he's stopped playing because some idiot thought it would be clever to insist on some daft initiation ceremony at the start of the season. I really hope he doesn't jack it in for life, but I can't force him to play.

I reffed his side once; they need him more than he needs them. :frown:
 

menace


Referees in Australia
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
3,657
Post Likes
633
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
As others say...way OTT.

The sports events I attended has a tradition of 'no-undie Sundee' - no one is forced, bit of puerile fun for the blokes that want to play along and random inspections (let's not go there) meant that if you were found not participating you were fined a small amount to the drinking kitty. No harm done, no bullying and no OTT shaming...no problem to those paying the small fine. So I've taken part in my fair share of shenanigans. BUT...

Rape
noun
1.the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2.any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3. statutory rape.
4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5.Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
verb (used with object), raped, rap·ing.
6.to force to have sexual intercourse.
7.to plunder (a place); despoil.
8.to seize, take, or carry off by force.
verb (used without object), raped, rap·ing.
9.to commit rape.

So technically this was 'rape', but if you don't go this far and call in police, what I can't understand is why this was not a charge of
'Physical abuse of a match official'? After the game and in the club house, the referee is still the match official and should be treated as such(AIUI ). If this was the charge bought on then the sanctions would be much higher? Why didn't the referees insist the charges be laid as as 'physical abuse'? The judgment found it was 'assault'..so why was the charges not changed and individuals identified and bought forward by the club? (There is no mention in the judgment what the victims wanted?)

This is what it should have been:
10.4(m) Physical Abuse of Match Officials
LE – 24 weeks
MR – 48 weeks
TE - 96+ weeks
Max Life

Piss poor result IMO. The club and its patrons got off lightly.
 
Last edited:

Daftmedic


Referees in England
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
1,341
Post Likes
113
Current Referee grade:
Level 6
If the locally constabulary was called they would of arrested for sexual assault. However if it went to prosecution who knows what the CPS would of sanctioned.
Damn.......!
 

Shelflife


Referees in Ireland
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
626
Post Likes
156
Way OTT, and a disgrace. Ive never come across these initiation rituals over here, playing or reffing but played for my brothers club (guest appearance) and he warned me after the game that a ritual may take place. To me it was disgusting and perverted and was going to happen over my dead body. Im not sure if my brother had a word but it never happened.

If that was my potential new club, I would have avoided them for that alone. Seems to me that there are a few saddos that get their kicks out of rituals/traditions like these under the guise of sure its only a bit of fun.

Im all on for a laugh and a joke but humiliating someone is not fun.
 
Top