TRY or KNOCK-ON? | By Advantage Sports Software | Facebook
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well.. for a throw forward, what matters is the direction of the hands (forwards/backward) relative to the player. We don't care how his hands are moving relative to the ground (ie for a player running at speed : forwards)This is also a knock on, though very hard to get correct in real time IMHO.
A layperson might say that the ball went backwards because it left his hands traveling behind him, but in rugby laws forwards is defined relative to the dead ball lines, not the player. The ball landed closer to the opposition dead ball line in relation to the place where possession was lost, therefore knock-on.
well.. for a throw forward, what matters is the direction of the hands (forwards/backward) relative to the player. We don't care how his hands are moving relative to the ground (ie for a player running at speed : forwards)
for a knock on, while it's not stated explicitly in the Laws, it is generally accepted that we don't consider the direction of the knock relative to the player, but consider only the ball's movement relative to the ground.
but in rugby laws forwards is defined relative to the dead ball lines, not the player.
yes, this thread is about a knock on, but you made the general comment that ..
which is not actually the case because
Throw forward When a player throws or passes the ball forward i.e. if the arms of the player passing the ball move forward
in that definition the word 'forward' means forward relative to the player. (we don't look at the movement of the arms relative to the ground)
Knock-on[ When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
while in this context we all accept that forward means relative to the ground
Throw forward When a player throws or passes the ball forward i.e. if the arms of the player passing the ball move forward
sigh - when a player is running at speed and makes a normal, good, pass to his team mate
- relative to the ground his body, his arms, his hands and the ball ALL travel forward - ie move toward the DBL
- but it's not a throw forward because, relative to his body, his arms and hands moved backwards.
that Australian rugby video demonstrated this years ago.
Throw forward When a player throws or passes the ball forward i.e. if the arms of the player passing the ball move forward
in that definition the word 'forward' means forward relative to the player. (we don't look at the movement of the arms relative to the ground)
Even in this example, the player, his arms and the ball are moving forwards, however, during a forward pass the arms have a greater acceleration towards the opponent's DBL. Focus only on movement of the arms, and whether in the direction of the opponent's DBL.when a player is running at speed and makes a normal, good, pass to his team mate
- relative to the ground his body, his arms, his hands and the ball ALL travel forward - ie move toward the DBL
I think you missed the point.i think you are getting the point.
Throughout the whole passing motion the players arms are actually getting closer to the opponents DBL
but that doesn't matter, as relative to the player the arms move backawards to execute a legal pass
My explanation perfectly explains this... During the pass, do the arms accelerate towards the opponent's dead-ball line? In the video the passer's hands do not accelerate forward towards the opponent's DBL, therefore it is not a forward pass.I guess all I can do is point you to the video.
The ball, the player, and the players arms, are all travelling toward the DBL - but it's not a throw forward. Why not?
Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. Don't know why it seems controversial! Or why anyone disagreesCrossref, you're arguing for the sake of it.
Throw forward = the arms go forward relative to the player. But that is still the same definition of forward as KO = ball is lost forward relative to the ground.