Has the game been ruined?

[Dickie E]

Flankers would just move to the centres and disrupt from there.

you're missing my point.

At a scrum/lineout the attacking team (ie team who wins the ball) has 7 players in their backline. The defending team effectively has 9 (once the defending flankers target the 10 & 12) which is an inbalance. So instead of trying to bust the line, they box kick, kick for corner, etc which is unattractive rugby. Further, we have seen the emergence of the non-tackling #10 (who needs a tackling #10 when he's got loose forwards to do it?) which is unfortunate.

At a T/R/M, we typically see a tackler and a would-be jackler leaving 13 other defenders spread out and clogging up the gain line. WR have convolutedly tried to fix this by the 50/22 to push a winger back. Wouldn't it be easier just to cut out a couple of players?

[Yeah, yeah ... I know its what RL did and we all hate RL. I take that as a given.]

 

[Jarrod Burton]

you're missing my point.

At a scrum/lineout the attacking team (ie team who wins the ball) has 7 players in their backline. The defending team effectively has 9 (once the defending flankers target the 10 & 12) which is an inbalance. So instead of trying to bust the line, they box kick, kick for corner, etc which is unattractive rugby. Further, we have seen the emergence of the non-tackling #10 (who needs a tackling #10 when he's got loose forwards to do it?) which is unfortunate.

At a T/R/M, we typically see a tackler and a would-be jackler leaving 13 other defenders spread out and clogging up the gain line. WR have convolutedly tried to fix this by the 50/22 to push a winger back. Wouldn't it be easier just to cut out a couple of players?

[Yeah, yeah ... I know its what RL did and we all hate RL. I take that as a given.]

As an ex (rubbish) flanker/prop I'd say that flankers are the best looking, hardest working and least attention seeking group of supermen around.

I understood where you were coming from but I suspect that we would still see a hybrid flanker/10 who appears to try to slow the ball as it is an effective method of slowing the game. I think it would also bugger scrums (3-2-1 positions) as a mediocre flanker will stabilise a scrum much better than a good 8 can given their relative position in the pack and force vectors - unless you made the new scrums 7 men (3-4-0) and dropped another back which would open the game up even further.

 

[Dickie E]

a hybrid flanker/10 who appears to try to slow the ball

I'm not picturing this. Can you expand a bit? At what phase of play would this happen?

 

[Jarrod Burton]

I'm not picturing this. Can you expand a bit? At what phase of play would this happen?

Poorly written in there sorry Dickie.

I was more thinking that the players who typically played flanker would move to the centres to still provide that pilfer ability in defence and disrupt the rucks as far as they could. That sort of play would leave teams exposed in the event of the 9 and the 10/flanker being involved in the TRM without someone to provide direction to the defence.

 

[didds]

I don't see how that makes sense. The jackler is the one & only way that the non ball-carrying team can contest the breakdown/ruck.

well, not quite. get enough defenders at the tackle and ruck properly (ie do not allow defenders to just flop all over the ball and bc ) and bobs your uncle.
At elite levels it wont happen though because defenders will not over commit, and the ability to support weight at incredible angles means there is nowhere to ruck "on" - hence my point recently elsewhere about removing the support body weight requirement and instead insist on shoulders above hips. Other than that Dickie is spot on

The real issue for me at the tackle is not so much the jackler but the latcher.

hey ho. its what the coaches, players and refs agree too apparently. And the rest is a result of it all, including head clashes and concussions and neck rolls and cards.

 

[Phil E]

The jackler is the one & only way that the non ball-carrying team can contest the breakdown/ruck.

Really?
What about a good counter ruck driving over the top and leaving the ball exposed?

 

[didds]

As an ex (rubbish) flanker/prop I'd say that flankers are the best looking, hardest working and least attention seeking group of supermen around.

Here's a guide to playing open side - esxtremely erudite and spot on i'd say...

A Guide to Playing Open Side Flanker

www.wesclark.com

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Really?
What about a good counter ruck driving over the top and leaving the ball exposed?

I had several rucks yesterday (BUCS) where both sides regularly entered rucks attempting to ruck. Gave us turnovers and exciting rugby.

 

[Mipper]

I get the sense that counter rucks are becoming more prevalent in the TV games that I have seen this season. This is certainly a good thing.

Not sure why It’s happening more,

 

[Dickie E]

Someone said to me once that Football has rules, and Rugby has laws for a reason.

Rules are to be followed whilst laws are for guidance.

Or is it another way of saying that our rules are so badly written they're only good for guidance only?

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Off topic? I watched Loughborough Lightening v Exeter Chiefs on Saturday (my game was off and my lad was refereeing) which was supposed to be at Franklin's Gardens but got got moved back to Loughborough on the plastic.

I've never seen a women's game of that level live and I was quite impressed with the skills and (here's where we get back on topic) the "cleanliness" of the breakdown and the "ability" to stay on their their feet in the scrum. All made for an entertaining, if one sided game.

LL short of their RWC players but stuck at it womanfully whilst Exeter were better taking the ball into contact and supported well.

Contrast that with the 20 minutes or so I watched of Saracens v Edinburgh watching Vunipola, Schoeman, Nel et al pissing about whilst "scrummaging".

 

[Phil E]

Off topic? I watched Loughborough Lightening v Exeter Chiefs on Saturday (my game was off and my lad was refereeing) which was supposed to be at Franklin's Gardens but got got moved back to Loughborough on the plastic.

I've never seen a women's game of that level live and I was quite impressed with the skills and (here's where we get back on topic) the "cleanliness" of the breakdown and the "ability" to stay on their their feet in the scrum. All made for an entertaining, if one sided game.

LL short of their RWC players but stuck at it womanfully whilst Exeter were better taking the ball into contact and supported well.

Contrast that with the 20 minutes or so I watched of Saracens v Edinburgh watching Vunipola, Schoeman, Nel et al pissing about whilst "scrummaging".

I've watched a couple of Leicester Ladies games (and run touch for one).
Same impressions, highly entertaining.

 

[Camquin]

The GMG need to be public, and the law book should be updated every year in line with agreed guidance.
And the GMG should never contradict the law book.