I am trying to say that you should avoid doubt. In such circumstances I have the mindset that there is no doubt and make a decisive call. Over many years of experience and analysis of such situations I am happy and confident about the decision I would make, which is basically that if the attacking side haven’t clearly grounded so you can award a try then the defence have stopped it.this makes little sense to me. You could just as legitimately have said that you don't have any doubt that it is a try. You can't see what happened ie you can't see the ball being grounded but likewise you can't see the ball not being grounded. If you said to the players that you have no doubt that the ball was held up, you wouldn't be telling the truth
Back to the pile up then. So you would only give a scrum if you can't see any of the ball? Ie if you can see that the ball is eventually off the ground but you have no idea what happened leading up to that, you'd go GLDO?The law is quite clear on this one isn't it?
If I haven't seen the ball grounded then I cannot give the try. I learnt a long time ago that making stuff up (i.e. what you "think" happened) comes back to bite you on the arse.
I can see the ball is clearly held up so that would be a GLDO. I am assuming the tackler is holding the ball up as well and preventing a grounding, otherwise the ball carrier could just ground it as I got here.
Explain to both Captains I didn't see a grounding, so cannot award the try. Move on.
Back to the pile up then. So you would only give a scrum if you can't see any of the ball? Ie if you can see that the ball is eventually off the ground but you have no idea what happened leading up to that, you'd go GLDO?
and why not ask your TMO as well ?I'd start by asking my AR what he/she saw
I had one of my own team tackle me as he realised I was about to run straight through the deadball area.Ive seen it happen once since I started playing in 1976.
It was in about 1978, and the ref didn't blow it as "the dead ball area is so short its not fair"
Obviously others experiences may well be different
So I think you're saying:Bath v Saracens. 22.49 on match clock. Pile up over line. Ref blew whistle. Ref didn’t see a grounding - determined a GLDO. Didn’t say held up.
Admittedly due to TMO, then went to penalty for double movement but the point is that the ref ‘doubted’ what had happened (or didn’t know what had happened) and went for GLDO. Out elite referees are told not to have ‘doubt’.
Nearly. If you have a definite grounding and have doubt over who did it first then it is a scrum. If you can’t see a grounding then have no doubt. GLDO.So I think you're saying:
1. if you have doubt about grounding go for 5m scrum, but
2. to avoid ever having to give 5m scrum, even if you have doubt, make sure you don't have doubt