6 Weeks for pushing ref

Flish


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I appreciate you guys are refs (closest I come is u7 tag games) so you understand the protocols, procedures, and, well, have to know the rules. But, of all the opinions (fans, players, coaches, me) I've heard on this ban, the only voices that think it's appropriate, or even lenient, are in these forums - you guys might want to reflect on that, it's a sport for fans.

Personally, I think the ref deserved to be dumped on his arse and embarrassed (I hope he was and learns), there was no aggression or malice, at best frustration at being prevented from doing his professional job. Another game, another day the outcome could have been season changing. I hope the ref, as a human, smiled and apologised after, maybe even got a round in, I would have
 

RobLev

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I appreciate you guys are refs (closest I come is u7 tag games) so you understand the protocols, procedures, and, well, have to know the rules. But, of all the opinions (fans, players, coaches, me) I've heard on this ban, the only voices that think it's appropriate, or even lenient, are in these forums - you guys might want to reflect on that, it's a sport for fans.

Personally, I think the ref deserved to be dumped on his arse and embarrassed (I hope he was and learns), there was no aggression or malice, at best frustration at being prevented from doing his professional job. Another game, another day the outcome could have been season changing. I hope the ref, as a human, smiled and apologised after, maybe even got a round in, I would have

I'm not a ref; I believe he got off lightly.
 

leaguerefaus


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I appreciate you guys are refs (closest I come is u7 tag games) so you understand the protocols, procedures, and, well, have to know the rules. But, of all the opinions (fans, players, coaches, me) I've heard on this ban, the only voices that think it's appropriate, or even lenient, are in these forums - you guys might want to reflect on that, it's a sport for fans.

Personally, I think the ref deserved to be dumped on his arse and embarrassed (I hope he was and learns), there was no aggression or malice, at best frustration at being prevented from doing his professional job. Another game, another day the outcome could have been season changing. I hope the ref, as a human, smiled and apologised after, maybe even got a round in, I would have

Where do you work? Every time you do something slightly wrong, we'll dump you on your ass :)
 

menace


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I appreciate you guys are refs (closest I come is u7 tag games) so you understand the protocols, procedures, and, well, have to know the rules. But, of all the opinions (fans, players, coaches, me) I've heard on this ban, the only voices that think it's appropriate, or even lenient, are in these forums - you guys might want to reflect on that, it's a sport for fans.

Personally, I think the ref deserved to be dumped on his arse and embarrassed (I hope he was and learns), there was no aggression or malice, at best frustration at being prevented from doing his professional job. Another game, another day the outcome could have been season changing. I hope the ref, as a human, smiled and apologised after, maybe even got a round in, I would have

Are you the type of guy that glasses a bloke in the crowded pub because he bumped into you by accident and made you spill half your pint on your shoes, cause it was his fault and he deserved it?

How would you like it if you were standing in the queue looking at your phone and didn't realise the queue had moved forward, and then suddenly some c@nt just shoves you (without aggression or malice of course :wink:) in the middle of the back to get you to move up? I bet you'd be pretty pissed about that, even though you know you probably should have kept your eye on the queue and moved up?

I think you'll find most referees know when they've done wrong and stepped into the path of a moving player will accept the knock, smile and apologise to the player ( I've been run over by a 200cm loose forward, and I'm only 173cm, by stepping right into his path. Mea culpa. Blood lip for my error.). But we don't accept, like this referee, being blind sided and smashed in the back just for standing still in the wrong spot.

I think you need to readjust your levels on what you think is reasonable and accidental contact and what is not.
 
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thepercy


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I appreciate you guys are refs (closest I come is u7 tag games) so you understand the protocols, procedures, and, well, have to know the rules. But, of all the opinions (fans, players, coaches, me) I've heard on this ban, the only voices that think it's appropriate, or even lenient, are in these forums - you guys might want to reflect on that, it's a sport for fans.

Personally, I think the ref deserved to be dumped on his arse and embarrassed (I hope he was and learns), there was no aggression or malice, at best frustration at being prevented from doing his professional job. Another game, another day the outcome could have been season changing. I hope the ref, as a human, smiled and apologised after, maybe even got a round in, I would have

I have not read all of the posts, but I went back to start reading them from the beginning to see if your argument held any weight, and first 9 comments (mostly by prodigious posters) all agreed with your view that it was harsh and that the referee was out of position.
 

andyscott


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you guys might want to reflect on that, it's a sport for fans.

No doubt your U7s play in front of a huge stadium of fans then?

Sorry the game is not about the fans, its a sport for all!!! everyone from volunteers to elite players, no one has more right to the game than the other.
 

Browner

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I appreciate you guys are refs (closest I come is u7 tag games) so you understand the protocols, procedures, and, well, have to know the rules. But, of all the opinions (fans, players, coaches, me) I've heard on this ban, the only voices that think it's appropriate, or even lenient, are in these forums - you guys might want to reflect on that, it's a sport for fans.

Personally, I think the ref deserved to be dumped on his arse and embarrassed (I hope he was and learns), there was no aggression or malice, at best frustration at being prevented from doing his professional job. Another game, another day the outcome could have been season changing. I hope the ref, as a human, smiled and apologised after, maybe even got a round in, I would have

Referees around the world (vast majority unpaid) have a role, its to adjudicate on the fair application of the laws of the game. Without them 30+ testosterone fuelled adults wouldnt be able to have competitive matches without the match descending into pitch battles/violent assault.

Physical contact with an official MUST only be entirely accidental, its the safety protection that allows me to travel unaccompanied to a match where the aggression of players spectators and coaches is a potential risk to me. Without the protection of a robust and strong disciplinary system I would not referee.....simple.

The PRO game must never be allowed to permit the 'thin end' of the referee protection ' wedge ' and as the RFU demonstrated with Hartley/Cockerill respecting the officials is crucial , in the case of Deliberate physical action against officials is is more than crucial it is THE SURVIVAL of the game IMO

Perhaps you should get your spectator bum along to a referee training day, and then when you have a 6'4 20 stone player who has had the 'red mist' descend , stand over you (in a field in the middle of nowhere) you'll then be thankfull of the 'sacrosanct' never deliberately ' be physical with the referee' law.

Yes Flish, i have challenged you....... Up for it?
 
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Simon Thomas


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I hope the ref, as a human, smiled and apologised after, maybe even got a round in, I would have

At elite levels the players and match officials do not drink alcohol (well except a couple of referees I can think of :biggrin:) and do not have post-match socials. For a start the players are far too busy with the sponsors and other promotional commitments, or are on the physio's table.
 

Dixie


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I have not read all of the posts, but I went back to start reading them from the beginning to see if your argument held any weight, and first 9 comments (mostly by prodigious posters) all agreed with your view that it was harsh and that the referee was out of position.
[bristling] Had to go back and check if I was one of those you were calling "prodigious". Lucky for you, I wasn't![/bristling]

I appreciate you guys are refs (closest I come is u7 tag games) so you understand the protocols, procedures, and, well, have to know the rules. But, of all the opinions (fans, players, coaches, me) I've heard on this ban, the only voices that think it's appropriate, or even lenient, are in these forums - you guys might want to reflect on that, it's a sport for fans.

Personally, I think the ref deserved to be dumped on his arse and embarrassed (I hope he was and learns), there was no aggression or malice, at best frustration at being prevented from doing his professional job. Another game, another day the outcome could have been season changing. I hope the ref, as a human, smiled and apologised after, maybe even got a round in, I would have

Welcome to the forum, Flish. You'll have noted that some of us can be a bit touchy - for what it's worth, I don't think your comment deserved quite the tone of response it largely got. Apologies, to the extent that I can offer them on behalf of others.

We only have one set of laws/rules to cover the whole game. The difficulty with the elite game is that it is often reffed with more of an eye towards the needs of the paying or TV spectator (who needs endless scrums and scrum resets? We'll let that offence slide.) than on the effect this will have on the Community game.

If amateur players are free to dump violently onto his arse an ageing volunteer ref, giving up his weekend to make a game happen, then very soon those players will find themselves without a ref to officiate their game. That is not "in the interests of the game", so the referee must be protected from such consequences - notwithstanding that they arise from his own error.

Professional players are refereed by professionals refs. As such, the field of play is their workplace, and as with every workplace, everyone (particularly, but not limited to, the players) has a legal obligation not to harass their colleagues or associates, or place them in harms way while they work.

In short, though the ref was wrong to be where he was, he did not deserve to be dumped on his arse, and the player who did it is acting wholly with disregard to the interests of this great game, and fully deserved his ban.
 

Browner

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If Flish is bright, he'll know that by coming on RugbyRefs.com and posting his narrow/inexperienced view it might get the response it deserved.

Similarly, if I post on u7tagrugbycoaching.com forum that punching should be allowed because my rugby mates love seeing a mass brawl in pro rugby then I'd be bracing myself for some 'less than chuffed' responses arriving.

Flish, what referee coaching/training have you had thus far? ....., I note you ref u7 tag ....which is the start point for many dads..



PS.. Welcome flish, xx
 

Simon Thomas


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Professional players are refereed by professionals refs. As such, the field of play is their workplace, and as with every workplace, everyone (particularly, but not limited to, the players) has a legal obligation not to harass their colleagues or associates, or place them in harms way while they work.

Only a few RFU referees have full time professional contracts as referees, some have RFU Trainer / Development jobs, and the rest have full time jobs elsewhere !
 

RobLev

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...Welcome to the forum, Flish. You'll have noted that some of us can be a bit touchy - for what it's worth, I don't think your comment deserved quite the tone of response it largely got. Apologies, to the extent that I can offer them on behalf of others.

I'm sorry, Dixie, but in my view the tone of response to his original ill-judged post was if anything fairly moderate. To the extent that you included me in your apology, include me out.

Paraphrasing that post, it came across to me as something like: "You do know that it's only REFEREES who think that it's unacceptable to dump a REFEREE on his arse; I wonder why that might be.... You might be all read-up on the rules and so on, but you know and care nothing about the game as it's played; wake up and smell the coffee."
 
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Jacko


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Only a few RFU referees have full time professional contracts as referees, some have RFU Trainer / Development jobs, and the rest have full time jobs elsewhere !

In Dixie's defence, we are semi-pro so his point about employment law applying is presumably valid.
 

Simon Thomas


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In Dixie's defence, we are semi-pro so his point about employment law applying is presumably valid.

Jacko - true and you can read your own contract, but perhaps only part-time employee or "match day employment" laws apply - I have no idea ? Anyway we are arguing on a pin head, and getting away from original issues.

All of you on Panel and Elite are professional, a few on Elite are Professional (full time contracted Referees) and many of you part-time paid a 'match fee'. I would argue that all referees at all levels should be treated with respect and as a one-man team (at L5 and below) need the protection of the culture & ethos of the Game, and real RFU disciplinary teeth if players, coaches, etc are abusive.
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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I appreciate you guys are refs (closest I come is u7 tag games) so you understand the protocols, procedures, and, well, have to know the rules. But, of all the opinions (fans, players, coaches, me) I've heard on this ban, the only voices that think it's appropriate, or even lenient, are in these forums - you guys might want to reflect on that, it's a sport for fans.

Personally, I think the ref deserved to be dumped on his arse and embarrassed (I hope he was and learns), there was no aggression or malice, at best frustration at being prevented from doing his professional job. Another game, another day the outcome could have been season changing.

As it was for Simon Park.
 

OB..


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Personally, I think the ref deserved to be dumped on his arse and embarrassed
If it had been accidental, I'm sure he would have agreed with you, but my reading of the video is that it was deliberate. That is unacceptable, as the player now knows.
 

Stephen Elliott

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Just got sent this clip from YouTube. I thought I'd share to show you a player getting away with shoving the referee... and I dare you to say Nigel was in the wrong place!
 
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