90 Seconds For A Conversion

Blackberry


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I am writing a brief handout for my club about law changes, and am suggesting that a time saving / stress reducing move would be for the touch judge to always carry the kicking tee, after all they are the two things which come onto the pitch for a conversion. I reckon this will ensure the team gets its full 90 seconds worth.
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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Why not take the kick for them? :biggrin:

90s is plenty time assuming they've got their act together. If they haven't - tough - I bet they don't cock it up the week after or even the kick after!!!

Stress reducing? for the TJ who's forgotten the tee and is frantically rummaging amongst first aid kit and water bottles whilst being berated by his team and stared at by the referee (all the time looking at his watch).

Don't spoon feed 'em.
 
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Blackberry


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You revel in predetermined disorganisation?

And when is it ever wrong to pass on good advice?
 

Blackberry


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And don't forget I'm writing as a club member. Which also means I actually could take the kick.
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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You revel in predetermined disorganisation?

And when is it ever wrong to pass on good advice?

If you reckon your club TJ(s) is (are) ok with it and you can see it benefitting your team(s) then fine.

I am not revelling, just expressing my view. I just think you're being too soft that's all.
 

Davet

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As far as your club is concerned then your advice to them is fine. The TJ from your club can happily be the one delegated by the club to carry the preferred kicking tee.

But frankly it doesn't matter WHO has it - so long as SOMEONE has it, and is responsible for getting it to the kicker asap.

But as referees we have zero interest in the clubs' organisation - we just have a 90 second limit on our stopwatch.
 

Simon Thomas


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DaveT - 2012 award for empathy ! :biggrin:
 

OB..


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As far as your club is concerned then your advice to them is fine. The TJ from your club can happily be the one delegated by the club to carry the preferred kicking tee.

But frankly it doesn't matter WHO has it - so long as SOMEONE has it, and is responsible for getting it to the kicker asap.

But as referees we have zero interest in the clubs' organisation - we just have a 90 second limit on our stopwatch.
Basically I agree.

However if it is down to SOMEONE, the danger is that EVERYBODY thinks that means SOMEONE ELSE. I think the advice for within a club is good. It also makes it more likely they will actually provide a TJ. However it should not extend to ARs when they are appointed (eg local cup games).
 

Davet

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Oh - I can empathise with the issue - I feel their pain; but I have, by dint of much practice, trained myself to be a b@stard

Any one who wants to be a ref should practice the same.

At least to a degree.
 

Davet

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OB - quite - it is not a refereeing function to establish who has the tee - (although establishing who can provde tea is a different matter entirely).

ARs are not associated with either club (at least not in RFU land) - and must NOT even dream of carrying the tee for a club.
 

crossref


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i think it would sometimes be pretty hard for the TJ to get the tee back after the kick.
Conversion - imagine if the kick is from the opposite touchline from yours - that means that after the kick the TJ has to run from behind the posts to the opposite touchline to collect the tee, and then cross the pitch before the restart.

and what about penalties? if the kick misses and is caught, or hits post then ball is in play -- do you really want your TJ to be concerned with re-locating the tee, while the game is on progress? he shoudl be sprinting back to his touchline to do his job.
 

Davet

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maybe he would keep the tee in his pocket.... maybe someone else would retrieve it and return it to him if a PK failed.

But - frankly - not our concern.
 

OB..


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If everybody knew that the club's TJ was responsible for the tee, then it would not be beyond the wit of man to get them to return it to him when they can, instead of merely throwing it into touch.

My club has a first aid kit, water bottles etc by the half way flag, and the tee lives there. Thus it always gets returned there by one route or another.
 

Blackberry


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Believe me, we don't get AR's!

Without trying to fan any flames, and full respecting Lee and OB's points, do you feel that there is more scope for us being proactive in disseminating laws and interpretations? Refs are of course not coaches, but any advice we can give to bring learning forward and off the pitch, rather than it being more of a (bitter) experience begun by the blast of a whistle is better? I reckon a good path refereeing can follow is to become part of the educators' team as well as the enforcers.

Mind you I was roundly castigated by a chairman at a Level 8 game (it was the Fat Controller game) for reminding his frontrow how I wanted them binding after a collapsed scrum. "We don't want coaching, we want refereeing" he cried. "Actually sir, I if you'd had coaching I could be refereeing" was my pithy response, spolied only by the fact that my training from Bucks made me say it under my breath.
 

crossref


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maybe someone else would retrieve it and return it to him if a PK failed.

.

yes - and it would then be even more effective if that 'someone else' kept hold of the tee until the next kick :)

basically the person in charge of the tee wants to hang around near the kicker, in order to quickly retrieve it ... so it's not a good idea for this person to be the TJ, who is about the only person in the playing arena who absolutely HAS to go and stand somewhere else (behind the posts)
 

Blackberry


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History shows that allocating "someone else" a role is the way to ensure it does not happen! :) We are talking about a small piece of advice to a small village club.
 

Blackberry


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....dare I post the actual handout I've prepared for them with the other advice..... he asked timidly
 

Davet

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History shows that allocating "someone else" a role is the way to ensure it does not happen! :) We are talking about a small piece of advice to a small village club.

But thats just what you are doing - allocating "somebody", even if that "somebody is the TJ (and is the TJ the same person each game?)
 

Taff


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i think it would sometimes be pretty hard for the TJ to get the tee back after the kick. Conversion - imagine if the kick is from the opposite touchline from yours - that means that after the kick the TJ has to run from behind the posts to the opposite touchline to collect the tee, and then cross the pitch before the restart.
The mans got a point. As it is now, I regularly struggle to write down the score, put my card and pencil away AND get back to the 10m line before the game is restarted.
 

crossref


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History shows that allocating "someone else" a role is the way to ensure it does not happen! :) We are talking about a small piece of advice to a small village club.

I reckon the TJ is perhaps the worst possible choice.
from the moment that the try is scored / referee indicates kick at goal, everyone around is idle and could be the tee-person.
Apart from the TJ. He is the busiest person there, he has to run to the posts, judge the kick and then run (sometimes sprint) back to position. He's the very last person who should distributing and retrieving the tee. He's *busy*.

get the water-carrier to the be the tee-man.
 
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