[Law] A New Myth!!!!!!!

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
14,106
Post Likes
2,131
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
If it's dangerous, why allow it at any level? What does it add to the game?

Agree. It only allows the isolated tackled player the opportunity to obstruct the opposition from getting the ball.
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
14,106
Post Likes
2,131
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
I'm now in an interesting position as a ref.

I now have knowledge that the IRB directed that squeezeball be banned for U18. I have had no correspondence from ARU either confirming or negating this directive.

So what do I do next Saturday?
 

SimonSmith


Referees in Australia
Staff member
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,335
Post Likes
1,440
"Yes m'lud, governance of U18 law variations is expressly delegated to the local Unions, who have signed up to that idea"

Buck duly passed.
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
14,106
Post Likes
2,131
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
"Yes m'lud, governance of U18 law variations is expressly delegated to the local Unions, who have signed up to that idea"

Buck duly passed.

and, of course, that would all be academic because referee Dickie E would be in the dock, wondering why he didn't transfer the house into Mrs Dickie's name when he had the chance :(
 

Christy


Referees in Ireland
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
527
Post Likes
60
Current Referee grade:
Level 1
If you see squeeze ball & its not in your union . ( in youth matches )
Penalise player anyway & advise him its also dangerous to them selves .

Sanction can be .
Off feet red 7 & making ball unplayable .
Penalty only.
 

Simon Thomas


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Messages
12,848
Post Likes
189
Squeezeball in RFUland is illegal still at U18 under nationally delegated law variations as far as I am aware.

No, it does not appear in the U19 WR law variations, for the reasons a number of posters give above.

I have asked up the RFU Match Officiating Management tree for confirmation, but as an active Match Observer I expect any squeezeball to be managed and sanctioned appropriately in U18 matches.

The Group refs I watch cover Premiership Academy matches so have specifically asked about that level.
 

Simon Thomas


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Messages
12,848
Post Likes
189
Word back from on high that squeezeball is not allowed at any level of U18 rugby in England, even Premiership Academy Level.
It is liable to PK sanction but might be managed in the first instance on some occasions.
 

menace


Referees in Australia
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
3,657
Post Likes
633
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
I'm now in an interesting position as a ref.

I now have knowledge that the IRB directed that squeezeball be banned for U18. I have had no correspondence from ARU either confirming or negating this directive.

So what do I do next Saturday?

But you do? You have the ARU 2017 GMG that is clear that squeezeball in Oz is only outlawed at u12 and below. Your @ss is sufficiently covered.

The irb request (rather than a directive as i see it) was 17 years ago...it's not on their website and what we don't know is there may have subsequently been messages from irb that softened their 'demand' and allows unions to decide themselves on such local rulings like squeezeball and crocodile rolls etc??
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
14,106
Post Likes
2,131
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
But you do? You have the ARU 2017 GMG that is clear that squeezeball in Oz is only outlawed at u12 and below. Your @ss is sufficiently covered.

The irb request (rather than a directive as i see it) was 17 years ago...it's not on their website and what we don't know is there may have subsequently been messages from irb that softened their 'demand' and allows unions to decide themselves on such local rulings like squeezeball and crocodile rolls etc??

Yes and I have now confirmed independently with ARU that squeezeball is only outlawed in U12 & below in Aust. I hope it doesn't bite us on the arse.
 

Simon Thomas


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Messages
12,848
Post Likes
189
Communicated to me by RFU Head of Officiating for the Community Game

For clarity, RFU Regulation 15, Appendix 9 covers the point;
3. Squeezeball:
No player shall use the technique known or referred to as “Squeezeball” and no person involved in the teaching or coaching of rugby may teach or coach to encourage the use the “Squeezeball” technique.
Note: “Squeezeball” is a technique where the ball carrier goes to ground, head forward (touching or close to the ground), irrespective of immediate contact with opponents, usually keeping parallel to the touchline, holding and protecting the ball close to the chest and, when on the ground, pushing the ball back between the legs.

http://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Docu...32/72/59/RFURegulation15Appendix9_English.pdf

Hope this helps to inform the appropriate behaviour of coaches and for consistent safe application of the law.
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
14,106
Post Likes
2,131
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
Communicated to me by RFU Head of Officiating for the Community Game

For clarity, RFU Regulation 15, Appendix 9 covers the point;
3. Squeezeball:
No player shall use the technique known or referred to as “Squeezeball” and no person involved in the teaching or coaching of rugby may teach or coach to encourage the use the “Squeezeball” technique.
Note: “Squeezeball” is a technique where the ball carrier goes to ground, head forward (touching or close to the ground), irrespective of immediate contact with opponents, usually keeping parallel to the touchline, holding and protecting the ball close to the chest and, when on the ground, pushing the ball back between the legs.

http://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Docu...32/72/59/RFURegulation15Appendix9_English.pdf

Hope this helps to inform the appropriate behaviour of coaches and for consistent safe application of the law.

Boys only???
 

Camquin

Rugby Expert
Joined
Mar 8, 2011
Messages
1,653
Post Likes
310
There are 11 appendices to reg 15 covering different age grades and sexes and squeezeball is banned in all of them.
I do not know why they quoted that specific one.
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
14,106
Post Likes
2,131
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
[LAWS]5. The Scrum:
a) There is no ‘turnover’ law. If scrums are reset for wheeling beyond 45 degrees the throw-in is to the side in possession at the time it is wheeled beyond 45 degrees.[/LAWS]

This one is interesting. I thought it was standard practice globally that, if a scrum wheels, the team that originally fed the scrum did so again.
 

TigerCraig


Referees in Australia
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
1,464
Post Likes
236
[LAWS]5. The Scrum:
a) There is no ‘turnover’ law. If scrums are reset for wheeling beyond 45 degrees the throw-in is to the side in possession at the time it is wheeled beyond 45 degrees.[/LAWS]

This one is interesting. I thought it was standard practice globally that, if a scrum wheels, the team that originally fed the scrum did so again.

It is now, but it wasn't when the age variation was put in (plus 45 deg v 90 deg)
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
14,106
Post Likes
2,131
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
It is now, but it wasn't when the age variation was put in (plus 45 deg v 90 deg)

the RFU document is dated 1 August 2017 and I assume is still current. This "no turover" stuff came in some time ago from memory. Certainly at least 2016 in Aust.
 

menace


Referees in Australia
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
3,657
Post Likes
633
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
[LAWS]5. The Scrum:
a) There is no ‘turnover’ law. If scrums are reset for wheeling beyond 45 degrees the throw-in is to the side in possession at the time it is wheeled beyond 45 degrees.[/LAWS]

This one is interesting. I thought it was standard practice globally that, if a scrum wheels, the team that originally fed the scrum did so again.
Notwithstanding that you are correct, I quite like this rule for age grade. It helps to be able to reward a dominant scrum at juniors as imo it is difficult to determine an intentional wheel and looks silly to pk a scrum that goes to 45 (but not whip wheeled to 90) as it usually just turns slowly to that angle.

Most times you see junior scrums wheel to 45 it is unintentional but occurs as one side is dominant (same as the 1.5m push!).
The u18 scrum laws, as such, make it difficult to reward the dominating scrum. So if they won the ball before it gets to 45 then why shouldnt they they get the chance to use it (even if it is to feed a new scrum).
I would like to see that rule applied here.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,804
Post Likes
3,145
[LAWS]5. The Scrum:
a) There is no ‘turnover’ law. If scrums are reset for wheeling beyond 45 degrees the throw-in is to the side in possession at the time it is wheeled beyond 45 degrees.[/LAWS]

This one is interesting. I thought it was standard practice globally that, if a scrum wheels, the team that originally fed the scrum did so again.
That's for U15 and U14 and has been there a while (we have discussed it here )
It's odd. At no other age group is possession important , above u15 it's determined by who originally threw in
 
Top