Advantage clarification

winchesterref


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Anyone else had this?

Advantage

If the referee is playing a penalty advantage to RED and RED want to take the penalty, that team can ask the referee to blow for the offence. As soon as the referee blows his whistle, the RED team can take a quick tap as long as it is taken from the correct mark; namely where the offence took place not where the referee is.

If a RED player deliberately knocks on to stop an advantage being played, then RED cannot then take a quick tap.
 

winchesterref


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Sent by society, says it has been distributed among the National Panel refs and is applicable inmediately.
 

crossref


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where does that text come from? It's not from the Laws.

We had some debate on here before about whether red are EVER allowed to take a quick tap if they 'request' the PK - some referees felt that allowing red to dictate the timing of the PK award was too much advantage for them. Personally I feel that denying them the quick tap is to deny them the full advantage of the PK.
 

Simon Thomas


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Anyone else had this?

Advantage

If the referee is playing a penalty advantage to RED and RED want to take the penalty, that team can ask the referee to blow for the offence. As soon as the referee blows his whistle, the RED team can take a quick tap as long as it is taken from the correct mark; namely where the offence took place not where the referee is.

If a RED player deliberately knocks on to stop an advantage being played, then RED cannot then take a quick tap.

Yes - it came from RFU at Twickenham on 11th December to all Panel and Group Match Officials
 

crossref


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Simon - do you expect refs at lower levels to follow it as well - did you cascade it to Society?
 

ddjamo


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it shouldn't have to be written. no way we should allow some cheeky 9 to bounce the ball to himself at an opportune time to take a quick tap and gain a huge advantage.
 

crossref


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For me the biggest significance of that guidance is the opposite message.. Ie the first sentence, that the scrum half CAN ask for the PK, thus dictating the timing , and then take a quick tap.
 

TheBFG


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As part of my PMB to SH's and Capts I tell them if they want advantage for a PK then to say so. If we then go back to the mark I'd let them take it as soon as I've given the mark, no issues with that.

I've told them not to knock it on and its never happened!
 

crossref


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I have never had anyone deliberately knock it on, but they do quite frequently ask for the PK. And then occasionally tap and go.
 

Nigib


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it shouldn't have to be written. no way we should allow some cheeky 9 to bounce the ball to himself at an opportune time to take a quick tap and gain a huge advantage.

surely not a huge advantage if it has to go back to the mark before the qt?
 

Simon Thomas


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Simon - do you expect refs at lower levels to follow it as well - did you cascade it to Society?

No I did not cascade as it is addressed to Panel Officials. If for Societies it would have been addressed to Society Secs too.

I will await formal advisement from my TDO and Chairman re use by Society Referees, but I suspect most are like BFG already and manage it, and I think it clears things up and removes my old trick of bouncing it.
 
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crossref


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Nigib:289697 said:
it shouldn't have to be written. no way we should allow some cheeky 9 to bounce the ball to himself at an opportune time to take a quick tap and gain a huge advantage.

surely not a huge advantage if it has to go back to the mark before the qt?

Most often this is a tackle /ruck offence and the scrum half will already be, or will make sure he is directly behind the mark before asking for the PK.
He will then ask for the kick, the referee will blow whistle and SH immediately taps and goes. This new guidance confirming that this is perfectly ok.

For me the take away of this guidance is that you CAN ask for a PK and then immediately tap.
 

Simon Thomas


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Most often this is a tackle /ruck offence and the scrum half will already be, or will make sure he is directly behind the mark before asking for the PK.
He will then ask for the kick, the referee will blow whistle and SH immediately taps and goes. This new guidance confirming that this is perfectly ok.

For me the take away of this guidance is that you CAN ask for a PK and then immediately tap.

You been admitted into the brethren of gobby #9s ? You know far too many of the tricks of the trade to be an innocent bystander :biggrin:
 

crossref


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I have been watching Danny Care for many years... :)
 

Simon Thomas


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I have been watching Danny Care for many years... :)

Ha ha ha - and that explains it. I saw him first time stoop for England U18 v Scotland U18 about 10'years ago - for those that know him one of DB's last major run outs as a TJ.

Jordan Crane was #8. both he and Care were class above the rest, but I did comment about the gobby northern scrummie in the bar afterwards. At which a nice man said I was so right - he was his master I/c rugby from his Otley grammar school :biggrin:
 

Dickie E


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This will open up the usual can of worms. Can any player request the PK or just the captain? What about the coach from the touchline?

And how long do they have? Ref plays advantage and several phases later, with play going nowhere, Red say "we'll take the kick now thanks sir". OK?

And I can't wait for:

"ref, PK please".
Peep.
"ref, he's not the captain, I am. I wanted the advantage."
 

Simon Thomas


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This will open up the usual can of worms. Can any player request the PK or just the captain? What about the coach from the touchline?

And how long do they have? Ref plays advantage and several phases later, with play going nowhere, Red say "we'll take the kick now thanks sir". OK?

And I can't wait for:

"ref, PK please".
Peep.
"ref, he's not the captain, I am. I wanted the advantage."

All happen already and manageable - any player can call it, coaches shut up, let's play rugby :biggrin:

If a player asks a referee to stop playing an offered advantage, perhaps the ref should reflect and get the hint.
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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We got it sent to us in South Yorks last week.

It was with the note that it was originally sent to the top table boys.
 

Adam


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There are two approaches to an 'other player' asking for the penalty.

1) Only let the captain do it.
2) Blow for it, and if the captain moans, tell him to get his players to be quiet so he can make the decisions.
 
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