Advantage clarification

Browner

Banned
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
6,000
Post Likes
270
There are two approaches to an 'other player' asking for the penalty.

1) Only let the captain do it.
2) Blow for it, and if the captain moans, tell him to get his players to be quiet so he can make the decisions.

[LAWS] Captain: The captain is a player nominated by the team.
Only the captain is entitled to consult the referee during the match and is solely responsible for choosing options relating to the referee’s decisions.
[/LAWS].

Or.....

[LAWS]Captain: The captain is a player nominated by the team.
Only the captain is entitled to consult the referee during the match and is solely (but he may delegate to one other player IF advantage ending is being requested) responsible for choosing options relating to the referee’s decisions.
[/LAWS]
 
Last edited:

Simon Thomas


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Messages
12,848
Post Likes
189
There are two approaches to an 'other player' asking for the penalty.

1) Only let the captain do it.
2) Blow for it, and if the captain moans, tell him to get his players to be quiet so he can make the decisions.

Exactly Adam - use it as a positive management tool, reflecting your individual management style, personality and comfort zones.
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
14,106
Post Likes
2,131
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
at a lineout not straight I often get "debate" about which option to take, some wag may say "we'll take the try please sir" or an opposition player may chip in with something less than useful.

No big deal beacuse play is dead and we have time to sort out a sensible outcome.

Might be interesting at the more dynamic situation being discussed here. So the first voice you hear over your shoulder that says "penalty please sir" may win the chocolates even if it belongs to the opposition :shrug:
 

Nigib


Referees in England
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
342
Post Likes
70
Current Referee grade:
Level 7
Having been reproved in the past by a captain for taking a disconnected 'voice' for the option and not him, when play is dead I now ask 'Skipper, options?) or similar. Have altered my PMB 1-2-1 with the captain in the light of this thread to include 'for an avoidance of doubt' statement that I will take any instruction for not taking advantage from his team, not wait for him - completely accepted, although not an instance during the match. Will see what happens in future.
 

beckett50


Referees in England
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
2,514
Post Likes
224
Current Referee grade:
Level 6
As part of my PMB to SH's and Capts I tell them if they want advantage for a PK then to say so. If we then go back to the mark I'd let them take it as soon as I've given the mark, no issues with that.

Yep, agree with this.

Very often it will be the 9 that tells you "we'll take the pen", and most captains are happy with this. After all, whist playing advantage through the passes we (I) are communicating with the 9 advising him that advantage is still being played.

Don't see an issue with it, personally.
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,031
Post Likes
1,775
So the first voice you hear over your shoulder that says "penalty please sir" may win the chocolates even if it belongs to the opposition :shrug:

so how do you handle that oppo shout situation?

Advance 10? YC? Shrug your shoulders and ignore it?

didds
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,804
Post Likes
3,145
if a player pretended to be an opponent in order to deceive me, I would certainly blow, stop play, and talk to the captain.
I don't think it's a YC, but if it happened a second time it would be.
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,031
Post Likes
1,775
and the sanction at that time? A chat with the captain strikes me as important 9of course!) - but all tap-n-go surprise/immediate opportunity had by now long gone... along with the opportunity for advantage. Leaving the PK in place at the opriginal amrk seems like a "win" for the side with the cheater?

didds
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,031
Post Likes
1,775
TOTALLY hypothetical situation:

red attacking, awarded a PK 60 metres out. There is a 5 versus zero overlap on one side of the pitch.
call from behind ref "we dont; ant the advantage". Ref blows.
it is a blue player. Play has now stopped. The 5 man advanatge is lost.

PT?

didds
 

SimonSmith


Referees in Australia
Staff member
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,335
Post Likes
1,440
Simple. Don't stop play unless you have visual contact with the player making the statement. That's what I do.
 

beckett50


Referees in England
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
2,514
Post Likes
224
Current Referee grade:
Level 6
TOTALLY hypothetical situation:

red attacking, awarded a PK 60 metres out. There is a 5 versus zero overlap on one side of the pitch.
call from behind ref "we dont; ant the advantage". Ref blows.
it is a blue player. Play has now stopped. The 5 man advanatge is lost.

PT?

didds

Upon seeing the overlap would have probably already called "Advantage over!" :biggrin:
 

Browner

Banned
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
6,000
Post Likes
270
TOTALLY hypothetical situation:

red attacking, awarded a PK 60 metres out. There is a 5 versus zero overlap on one side of the pitch.
call from behind ref "we dont; ant the advantage". Ref blows.
it is a blue player. Play has now stopped. The 5 man advanatge is lost.

PT?

didds

Good (albeit extreme ) hypo.
. The "take the PK" guidance doesn't consider " unsportsmanship " likelihoods, but these are already covered in 10.4(m) so I guess deal with them as you would any other (?)

What about the side that " verbalised the request" behind your back, but immediately recognise a premature request as you blow , and then attempt to blame one of their opponents as "Mr unsportsmanlike" ?

Also only hypothetical ...

Sometimes tiny nibbling away at these things can still undermine them, at least referee as "sole decider" provides clarity if not uniformity.
 
Last edited:

winchesterref


Referees in England
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
2,014
Post Likes
197
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
Get visuals on the player calling. Generally if someone from distance calls it, their team mate with the ball will back it up with another call to you, or stop. Or it will be the ball player who asks for it. I can count the number of times on one hand when a call similar to this before the guidance was issued has been made from someone who isn't in/around the ball, and I would not think there will be a huge change.
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
14,106
Post Likes
2,131
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
probably need to be mindful of the SH who asks for the PK, relaxes, then gets hammered before you can get whistle to mouth.
 
Top