Advantage: yes o no?

Diego


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With the new modification of the law:

[LAWS]8.5 MORE THAN ONE INFRINGEMENT

(a) When there is more than one infringement by the same team:

• If advantage cannot be played or does not accrue to the second offence, the referee applies the appropriate sanction to the offence which is most advantageous to the nonoffending team.

• If either sanction is for foul play the referee applies the appropriate sanction to the offence which is most advantageous to the non-offending team. The referee may also temporarily suspend, or order off, the offending player.

(b) If advantage is being played following an infringement by one team and then the other team commit an infringement, the referee blows the whistle and applies the sanctions associated with the first infringement. If either infringement is for foul play, the referee applies the appropriate sanction for that[/LAWS]


Can you play advantage for a man in front of the kicker in a restart of the game/kick off?
 

Pegleg

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With the new modification of the law:

[LAWS]8.5 MORE THAN ONE INFRINGEMENT

(a) When there is more than one infringement by the same team:

• If advantage cannot be played or does not accrue to the second offence, the referee applies the appropriate sanction to the offence which is most advantageous to the nonoffending team.

• If either sanction is for foul play the referee applies the appropriate sanction to the offence which is most advantageous to the non-offending team. The referee may also temporarily suspend, or order off, the offending player.

(b) If advantage is being played following an infringement by one team and then the other team commit an infringement, the referee blows the whistle and applies the sanctions associated with the first infringement. If either infringement is for foul play, the referee applies the appropriate sanction for that[/LAWS]


Can you play advantage for a man in front of the kicker in a restart of the game/kick off?

Why not?


8.3 WHEN THE ADVANTAGE LAW IS NOT APPLIED
(a) Referee contact. Advantage must not be applied when the ball, or a player carrying it,
touches the referee.
(b) Ball out of tunnel. Advantage must not be applied when the ball comes out of either end of
the tunnel at a scrum without having been played.c) Wheeled scrum. Advantage must not be applied when the scrum is wheeled through more
than 90 degrees (so that the middle line has passed beyond a position parallel to the
touchline).
(d) Collapsed scrum. Advantage must not be applied when a scrum collapses. The referee
must blow the whistle immediately.
(e) Player lifted in the air. Advantage must not be applied when a player in a scrum is lifted in
the air or forced upwards out of the scrum. The referee must blow the whistle immediately.
(f) After the ball has been made dead. Advantage cannot be played after the ball has been
made dead.
 
Last edited:

TheBFG


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no reason why not, however think what might occur because of it? The norm is to blow it straight away and therefore not causing you another issue!!!
 

crossref


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no reason why not, however think what might occur because of it? The norm is to blow it straight away and therefore not causing you another issue!!!

can you expand BFG ? what do you have in mind?
 

TheBFG


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It's expected to be called, if it's obvious and people start shouting from the side line you could have a player catch the ball expecting the whistle only to get hit by the "illegal" player and they're not ready for it!

At which point his team mates start dishing out their own punishment and then the chasers team think their mate has been hard dome by as he was "only playing to the whistle" and you have a mass brawl all for the sake of an early whistle. Get my drift?
 

Dickie E


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I've tried this both ways.

I favour the immediate whistle as the chances of getting an advantage in a reasonable time in this situation is low.
 

Browner

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It's expected to be called, if it's obvious and people start shouting from the side line you could have a player catch the ball expecting the whistle only to get hit by the "illegal" player and they're not ready for it!
Offside - advantage red ....Puts everyone on notice

All receivers should be braced ready for that 'traditional' initial hit :wink:
 

FlipFlop


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But what is the likelihood of any advantage. It is a scrum offence, the non-offending team are getting the ball AT LEAST 10m further back. And the offside player is highly likely to be the one making the first hit.

If the kicking team had been in possession and knocked on on the half-way line, would you be playing advantage if the non-offending team got the ball over 10m further back? Unlikely.
 

The umpire


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But what is the likelihood of any advantage. It is a scrum offence, the non-offending team are getting the ball AT LEAST 10m further back. And the offside player is highly likely to be the one making the first hit.

If the kicking team had been in possession and knocked on on the half-way line, would you be playing advantage if the non-offending team got the ball over 10m further back? Unlikely.
If the non-offending team have lost every scrum so far, then avoiding one would be an advantage to them.
 

Pegleg

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Since man in front is rarely pinged I doubt we need to worry about things getting "tasty". If that were true there would be far more issues at restarts. We play "material effect" with players in front a lot. So why not advantage?
 

The Fat


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Offside - advantage red ....Puts everyone on notice

All receivers should be braced ready for that 'traditional' initial hit :wink:

We don't play as long advantage for scrum advantage as penalty advantage. Let's say the kick-off goes 15-20m and near the sideline where the kicking team's winger starts ahead and is zeroing in on the catcher. How long an advantage are you willing to play just to get the ball back to half way which is at least the point where an advantage will start to accrue?
I can see the argument for playing advantage in theory, but in reality you would need the catcher to step the charging winger and have daylight in front of him. You're not going to play 15 phases to get back to half way just because the receiving team is getting rogered in the scrums.
 

Dickie E


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Funny, isn't it?

Being in front of kicker in general play is a penalty offence.

Being in front of kicker at restart, where you have a big white line to help you and plenty of time to get it right, is a scrum offence
 

Pegleg

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Agreed that is a bit of a contradiction.
 

Pegleg

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How many times is this offence pinged? Rarely. Why? Material effect. So either the guys applying ME to the play are getting it wrong or those who says the player waiting to catch it is in peril are wrong so which is it?
 

crossref


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Funny, isn't it?

Being in front of kicker in general play is a penalty offence.

Being in front of kicker at restart, where you have a big white line to help you and plenty of time to get it right, is a scrum offence

The other difference is that in general play being in front of the kicker is only an offence if you move forward (or if 10m law applies, fail to retire).

But at a restart it's an outright offence that can be pinged even if you realise and stand still. So that makes a scrum seem more reasonable
 

Ronald

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But at a restart it's an outright offence that can be pinged even if you realise and stand still. So that makes a scrum seem more reasonable[/QUOTE]

I would generally allow play to continue if I shouted "5 blue stop" and he complies...again, look at where he stopped and whether him being in front might have forced the receiving player to change his behaviour.
 

Browner

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We don't play as long advantage for scrum advantage as penalty advantage. Let's say the kick-off goes 15-20m and near the sideline where the kicking team's winger starts ahead and is zeroing in on the catcher. How long an advantage are you willing to play just to get the ball back to half way which is at least the point where an advantage will start to accrue?
I can see the argument for playing advantage in theory, but in reality you would need the catcher to step the charging winger and have daylight in front of him. You're not going to play 15 phases to get back to half way just because the receiving team is getting rogered in the scrums.

Granted an organised chase could easily curtail any advantage from accruing , (especially if the kick is deep or has long hang-time) but at some levels a dog-legged chase or a poor kick gives a better advantage opportunity than a scrum ....

Like many threads, you cant give appropriate advise that applies equally for everyone ....referee management tips often depend on the level being referee'd.
 

Ciaran Trainor


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this has got me thinking that the law needs changing to and option of Kick again
13.3 Position of the kicker’s team at a kick-off

All the kicker’s team must be behind the ball when it is kicked. If they are not, a scrum is formed at the centre. Their opponents throw in the ball.

If you are getting hammered in the scrum there is no advantage whatsoever so you would be right to look for the receiving team actually fielding the ball and getting clean possession before you blow up.
 

Rushforth


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I've never played advantage for being in front of the kicker, but then the back foot of such players is generally behind the line and they are already checking any speed they have because they realise they could be called back.

The players at all levels over here - I ran touch for a practice match against the national team last week - tend to be ... over-enthusiastic, let us say. Even at the level I ref at, they all think their FH is Jonny, as opposed to the only guy on the side who can drop-kick a ball 10 (11?) yards or more.

My thinking is to manage it first (loud shout of "hold" or "stay back #x") and if they do indeed check any speed to play on and tell the captain or kicker. That said, I appreciate Ciaran's input and although my approach is consistent with other referees at my level here in Holland - for the simple fact that the players want to play - I'd be interested in to what degree this is "material" elsewhere (at lower levels, that is)
 
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