Advice on refereeing the jackal

[Stu10]

I would appreciate hearing how others referee the tackle/jackal/ruck scenario with regard to timing and what you are looking for.

I'm pretty sure I've got the technical requirements correct, but I sometimes struggle on the timing. Tackle, clear release, first man on feet can jackal and must make a clear attempt to lift the ball, once a defender comes in and a player from each team are in contact with each other and over the ball (most likely the jackler and the first defender to arrive) then it becomes a ruck and hands must be removed.

At u16 I find someone tries a jackal at almost every tackle without consideration, whereas in adult rugby players tend to make a quick evaluation and determine if the jackal is on or not based on positioning and whether a supporting defender is out of position. Subsequently, at u16, there are split seconds between the jackler getting hands on the ball and the first defender engaging to form a ruck, normally followed by a shout of "I had my hands on it, he's not releasing".

I'd appreciate some advice on judging that balance between the ball carrier being able to release or play the ball immediately after going to ground, jackler getting hands on the ball, and the ruck forming all within what feels like a second.

 

[Mipper]

Not sure I would call it advice but I can share my approach. I do a fair amount of U16 and Colts games, and firstly I have to agree that this is a difficult part of the game.

one thing I do find is that the tacklers at U16 are often slow to roll away, and if I can not be sure whether there was clear lift, and that the Jackler was first there before ruck was formed, I can pretty much rely on penalising the tackler for not rolling.

if the tackler is away in good time, and I am unsure I will call “ruck formed, hands away”, as to be honest if I am not sure, that means it’s not clear.

To underpin all of this I make sure that I am very clear during the pre match briefing about “clear lift” and “tackler rolling away”.

After penalising for not rolling I will advise the jackler that he was legal but the tackler was not. I find that this works pretty well as a rule.

 

[smeagol]

once a defender comes in and a player from each team are in contact with each other and over the ball (most likely the jackler and the first defender to arrive) then it becomes a ruck and hands must be removed.

This part is not quite true - if the defender has hands on before contact with an opposing support player, the defender is allowed to maintain hands on ball (15.11)

 

[chbg]

U16, especially schools, requires every bit of management that you can give. My second most frequent penalty, and that's quite rare, if for tackler not rolling away and impeding the ball carrier's team from getting in a position to counter the jackal. I tell both teams before the game that I will manage it with my voice as much as I can; if they respond they will play much more rugby. So I try to get to the breakdown early and issue instructions on what I see first. If the jackal does get a good hold, he is either going to win the ball (happy days) or the holding on offence will be clear (my most frequent penalty, as it is quite difficult to manage the ball carrier to release). If he doesn't get in a good position, or loses the ball the first time, or places hands on the ground, I find that it is easy to instruct him to leave it (e.g. "Blue Hands Away") and get a response. Rarely do I have to give a penalty for this, as I have managed to provide continuity of possession.

Perhaps more importantly, before the game, especially at schools, I tell all players that there is to be no appealing and no dissent. Occasionally I have to remind them during the game, but MO abuse to me has been very low this season (so far ....). I remember one PK for dissent ("I didn't knock it on") during the game.

 

[Stu10]

This part is not quite true - if the defender has hands on before contact with an opposing support player, the defender is allowed to maintain hands on ball (15.11)

Your are correct regarding law 15.11, but what does that mean in real terms?

Law 15.11 : Once a ruck has formed, no player may handle the ball unless they were able to get their hands on the ball before the ruck formed and stay on their feet.

In reality all refs I've seen will call “ruck formed, hands away”, and I believe they are saying that to all players. Does this simply allow, for example, the tackled ball carrier to leave a hand on the ball when it's laid back, or enable a successful jackler chance to then transfer the ball?

 

[Jz558]

Your are correct regarding law 15.11, but what does that mean in real terms?

Law 15.11 : Once a ruck has formed, no player may handle the ball unless they were able to get their hands on the ball before the ruck formed and stay on their feet.

In reality all refs I've seen will call “ruck formed, hands away”, and I believe they are saying that to all players. Does this simply allow, for example, the tackled ball carrier to leave a hand on the ball when it's laid back, or enable a successful jackler chance to then transfer the ball?

In real terms it means that providing the jackler has hands on the ball before the ruck is formed they can maintain hands on the ball assuming they are on their feet. The reality thereafter is that it is down to the ref to manage. If the jackler has hands on the ball it should be lifted quickly and if not make a quick decision as to who is at fault. At younger youth levels it is easier to judge as very few have the nouse as a jackler to hold the ball into the ball carrier to win the penalty. More difficult at older/better standard youth levels but still in my experience very few jacklers deliberately hold a ball in. As with chbg my most frequent offence is probably holding on by the ball carrier.

 

[didds]

. Does this simply allow, for example, the tackled ball carrier to leave a hand on the ball when it's laid back, or enable a successful jackler chance to then transfer the ball?

A small coaching point here maybe for some clarity (??!!).
I always coach a tackled player to place the ball AND LEAVE A HAND ON IT to steady it. Not to prevent the opposition from claiming it if they are able but to stop some clod hopping second row from arriving, not looking at where his/her feet are going and accidentally hoofing the ball "anywhere". I can see an argument about how skills should be better to not do that, but its a dynamic high paced game and we also expect the arriving player to be mindful of where his head/shoulder/arms are going so (s)he will have to be looking at the impact [point at some time also.
Ultimately keeping the ball still with one hand keeps the game tidy with no silly spillages through hoofing 2nd rows - but of course should NOT be used to prevent opposition access and should be PKd appropriately if that does occur.

HTH

didds

 

[Phil E]

A small coaching point here maybe for some clarity (??!!).
I always coach a tackled player to place the ball AND LEAVE A HAND ON IT to steady it. Not to prevent the opposition from claiming it if they are able but to stop some clod hopping second row from arriving, not looking at where his/her feet are going and accidentally hoofing the ball "anywhere". I can see an argument about how skills should be better to not do that, but its a dynamic high paced game and we also expect the arriving player to be mindful of where his head/shoulder/arms are going so (s)he will have to be looking at the impact [point at some time also.
Ultimately keeping the ball still with one hand keeps the game tidy with no silly spillages through hoofing 2nd rows - but of course should NOT be used to prevent opposition access and should be PKd appropriately if that does occur.

HTH

didds

I resent the disparaging remarks about 2nd rows, who as we all know are the most intelligent players on the park with silky smooth rugby skills

 

[didds]

I resent the disparaging remarks about 2nd rows, who as we all know are the most intelligent players on the park with silky smooth rugby skills

errr....

NURSE!! PHIL NEEDS HIS MEDS!!!

 

[Stu10]

A small coaching point here maybe for some clarity (??!!).
I always coach a tackled player to place the ball AND LEAVE A HAND ON IT to steady it. Not to prevent the opposition from claiming it if they are able but to stop some clod hopping second row from arriving, not looking at where his/her feet are going and accidentally hoofing the ball "anywhere". I can see an argument about how skills should be better to not do that, but its a dynamic high paced game and we also expect the arriving player to be mindful of where his head/shoulder/arms are going so (s)he will have to be looking at the impact [point at some time also.
Ultimately keeping the ball still with one hand keeps the game tidy with no silly spillages through hoofing 2nd rows - but of course should NOT be used to prevent opposition access and should be PKd appropriately if that does occur.

HTH

didds

This is exactly what I meant when I said tackled ball carrier to leave a hand on the ball when it's laid back.

 

[smeagol]

This is exactly what I meant when I said tackled ball carrier to leave a hand on the ball when it's laid back.

I would differentiate between using a hand to steady the ball vs preventing a defender from getting a clean steal.

Pinning the ball against the BC on the ground - I hate this as a tactic, I hate that it's rewarded at the highest levels, and hate that it's trickled down to grassroots.

 

[didds]

I would differentiate between using a hand to steady the ball vs preventing a defender from getting a clean steal.

Yes.
which is exactly what i said also, for clarity and the avoidance of doubt