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Age-grade line-out lifting

DaveR


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I was doing an U16 game and pinged a line-out jumper for early lift (before the ball had been thrown in). The coach, during the interval, said he'd been on a recent lineout course and that lift-before-throw was legal. This is contrary to law 18.20 and I can't see anything in Reg 15 that allows lifting prior to the throw. I played out the rest of the game as law 18.20. Was the coach right for age-grade competition?
 

Phil E


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What a surprise a coach got the law wrong! Wonder who was leading the lineout course?

Early lifting is prohibited in Law and the Age Grade Regulations don't mention it, so stick with Law.
 

crossref


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Phil is quite right, but my impression is that it's not often penalised .. more often managed out

Others can correct me if I am wrong ..
 

Flish


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Phil is quite right, but my impression is that it's not often penalised .. more often managed out

Others can correct me if I am wrong ..

Yup, normally my take, 99/100 it's poor skill / timing and immaterial so quiet word to watch the timing at the next line out, if a pattern then chat with the coach after as long as they're not getting an advantage from it
 

Phil E


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Phil is quite right, but my impression is that it's not often penalised .. more often managed out

Yes indeed, it usually goes like this....

Thrower is about to throw.
Opposition go up in anticipation.
Thrower gets confused and doesn't throw.
Opposition hold their man up waiting for the throw.
Throwing team put their man up just in case and hold him up there.

PEEP!
"OK chaps, this is really simple. Jumpers stay on the ground until the ball is thrown, hooker throw it in quicker please."

NB: this is not just at kids level, it's the same for adults.
 

Jz558


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The coach was wrong as has been pointed out.

In more normal times though I've found in U15 games, where lifting in the line is a new thing, an early lift is reasonably common as they come to terms with the new skill. I wouldn't accept it at U16 level however it is worth bearing in mind that this years U16s missed the whole of last season and were playing U15 age grade variations up until the new year so developmentally are still new to the skill in a match scenario.
 

Flish


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Quite and same will apply for a while, I coach U15 and they will have have theirs first lifting experience this week as that's been delayed since September - Common sense needed that's all
 

Phil E


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The coach was wrong as has been pointed out.

In more normal times though I've found in U15 games, where lifting in the line is a new thing, an early lift is reasonably common as they come to terms with the new skill. I wouldn't accept it at U16 level however it is worth bearing in mind that this years U16s missed the whole of last season and were playing U15 age grade variations up until the new year so developmentally are still new to the skill in a match scenario.

I have an U16 game on Sunday, the first for them with contested lineouts. Should be interesting :unsure:
 

didds

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all Id add to this scenario as a general thought as a coach/ex player etc...

Its not "immaterial" generally speaking (though much leeway at these age groups where its new etc).

There will be a good reason why the throwing team (T) will have chosen to throw to place P, with action A1 occuring with the successful catch (eg off the top, catch and drive, some super sexy lineout based move etc).

So the defending team (D) going up early and disrupting the throw may end up also flagging what the throw+action was (may being the operative word here obviously). So merely resetting may now suppress T's preferred action A1, as now D are aware of what is coming. So T may be forced through no fault of their own to choose a less preferential action A2.

This is not to say don't manage it initially with a reset. But be mindful that continual "accidental" early lifting is potentially impacting on T's options.
Generally speaking.

didds
 
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Phil E


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For me an early lift is usually combined with or caused by a delayed throw by the hooker, which is also an offence?

That's why it's usually best to manage it in the first instance.
 

Decorily

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For me an early lift is usually combined with or caused by a delayed throw by the hooker, which is also an offence?

That's why it's usually best to manage it in the first instance.
Is a delayed throw really an offence?
 

Decorily

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18.23: The ball must

c: Be thrown in without delay once the lineout is formed. Sanction: Free-kick.
Yes...thanks

I'm aware of the law and my poorly worded question was intended to be a bit tongue in cheek...

This thread is referring to age grade game and I just feel that I would never ( have never! ) had a reason to penalise a thrower for delaying.

Personally I tend to have a very quick word with early lifters/jumpers.... 'Down guys ..you're up early! '....if they come down and ball is put in I'm happy to play on.
 

Phil E


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Yes...thanks

I'm aware of the law and my poorly worded question was intended to be a bit tongue in cheek...

This thread is referring to age grade game and I just feel that I would never ( have never! ) had a reason to penalise a thrower for delaying.

Personally I tend to have a very quick word with early lifters/jumpers.... 'Down guys ..you're up early! '....if they come down and ball is put in I'm happy to play on.

That's why I said its usually best to manage it ;)
 

Mipper


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Quite and same will apply for a while, I coach U15 and they will have have theirs first lifting experience this week as that's been delayed since September - Common sense needed that's all
I did an U15 game yesterday, one team didn’t bother with the lift at all, and the other team gave up at half-time. They needed a bit more practice.
 
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