Highlights are up if anyone wants another look
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/video/118529
Are we talking about the last pass from Mitcheel to AAC? Can't see a problem with that one at all
Argentina v Australia
- Thread starter Waspsfan
- Start date
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/video/118529
Are we talking about the last pass from Mitcheel to AAC? Can't see a problem with that one at all
That's the one being talked about, and neither can I.
Ciaran Trainor
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Never forward for me and Clancy was there right in line.
Folau had the worst game I've ever seen him play.
Folau had the worst game I've ever seen him play.
TigerCraig
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But by the same token he also ignores arriving attacking players flopping on top of everything
menace
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Yep - agree. The only fortunate this was that he was equally as bad for both sides. The incident with Folau under pressure and argies player has his chest on the ground and was still rewarded was......perplexing!
There you go Ian, I can agree with you!
davidlandy
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Perplexing is the word :shrug:
And this is the 3rd best ref in the world?!? What a state the sport is in when it comes to this.
I know comparisons are odious, but ice hockey doesn't suffer anything like the same fate when it comes to refereeing at the elite level. Top refs are all much of a muchness, they spot pretty much everything and they all have more or less the same standards, it's something they work very hard on achieving and there's very little to choose between them. Nobody gives a damn who is going to ref their match because it makes very little difference - just as it should be.
Perhaps you could say that ice hockey is easier to ref because there's only 10 players on the ice at any one time, and the rink is much smaller than a rugby pitch, which is true - but it's also a damn sight faster. And, when two top rugby refs will look at the same play from the same angle and blow it differently then I think you have to admit there is a big problem. Who knows how to play any more, or what's legal and not? It's a lottery.
From a governance point of view ice hockey is also far more responsive to the changing needs of the game, for example major recent changes in the NHL include removing the centre-line offside rule and adding another referee - yes, how about that, TWO refs?!? What a novelty - now you could ref BOTH sides of the scrum!!
What major innovations has rugby come up with the same time... ? Answers on a postcard please...
They [ice hockey refs] also have the option to permanently bin a serious offender, but to allow him/her to be replaced by a substitute after a penalty period, or immediately if it's just a piece of nonsense like swearing, or faking to try and draw a penalty.
This would alleviate rugby's "RC dilemma", in that the ref might want to sanction a player but not ruin the spectacle by reducing one side to 14 for the remainder of the game. I've proposed this before (player binned permanently, but subbed after 10 mins) but the idea it got roundly booed by all and sundry. It's wryly amusing that some people seem to think that what works well in other sports could never work for rugby. Ah well.
As a lifelong fan I'm seriously wondering why on earth I bother watching any more, it's got that bad. I hope WR wake up and smell the coffee, but I seriously doubt it...
PS. Whatever was going on in WB's mind when he blew for a KO by the Pumas, and justified his decision twice by saying "I thought it touched his fingertips"... I thought the standard was C&O?!?
Was he was unsighted and just went on what he thought the most likely thing was?
It led to a well-worked Aussie try on the right - good thing it wasn't the deciding score in the 79th minute, but considering how close Arg came to a comeback, it could have made them level on points at some point if it weren't for that try.
Don't get me wrong, the Aussies were worthy winners, deservedly so, I'm just saying decisions like this (and the non-penalty scrum at half time already mentioned) can make a difference.
And this is the 3rd best ref in the world?!? What a state the sport is in when it comes to this.
I know comparisons are odious, but ice hockey doesn't suffer anything like the same fate when it comes to refereeing at the elite level. Top refs are all much of a muchness, they spot pretty much everything and they all have more or less the same standards, it's something they work very hard on achieving and there's very little to choose between them. Nobody gives a damn who is going to ref their match because it makes very little difference - just as it should be.
Perhaps you could say that ice hockey is easier to ref because there's only 10 players on the ice at any one time, and the rink is much smaller than a rugby pitch, which is true - but it's also a damn sight faster. And, when two top rugby refs will look at the same play from the same angle and blow it differently then I think you have to admit there is a big problem. Who knows how to play any more, or what's legal and not? It's a lottery.
From a governance point of view ice hockey is also far more responsive to the changing needs of the game, for example major recent changes in the NHL include removing the centre-line offside rule and adding another referee - yes, how about that, TWO refs?!? What a novelty - now you could ref BOTH sides of the scrum!!
What major innovations has rugby come up with the same time... ? Answers on a postcard please...
They [ice hockey refs] also have the option to permanently bin a serious offender, but to allow him/her to be replaced by a substitute after a penalty period, or immediately if it's just a piece of nonsense like swearing, or faking to try and draw a penalty.
This would alleviate rugby's "RC dilemma", in that the ref might want to sanction a player but not ruin the spectacle by reducing one side to 14 for the remainder of the game. I've proposed this before (player binned permanently, but subbed after 10 mins) but the idea it got roundly booed by all and sundry. It's wryly amusing that some people seem to think that what works well in other sports could never work for rugby. Ah well.
As a lifelong fan I'm seriously wondering why on earth I bother watching any more, it's got that bad. I hope WR wake up and smell the coffee, but I seriously doubt it...
PS. Whatever was going on in WB's mind when he blew for a KO by the Pumas, and justified his decision twice by saying "I thought it touched his fingertips"... I thought the standard was C&O?!?
Was he was unsighted and just went on what he thought the most likely thing was?
It led to a well-worked Aussie try on the right - good thing it wasn't the deciding score in the 79th minute, but considering how close Arg came to a comeback, it could have made them level on points at some point if it weren't for that try.
Don't get me wrong, the Aussies were worthy winners, deservedly so, I'm just saying decisions like this (and the non-penalty scrum at half time already mentioned) can make a difference.
It has been trialled more than once, and was found unsatisfactory. However we do currently have 2 ARs and a TMO, so there is more than one pair of eyes involved.
That one is new to me and would be worth trialling.
I think that is highly unlikely. I think you are over-reading "thought" when it was probably just a polite way of disagreeing.
shebeen
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I think they went with a bad angle to review - he goes low, and his right arm is knocked back by Folau's left knee.
Not a yellow card in my book, you've got to remember this is a lock tackling one of the most elusive backline players in the game.
liversedge
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15 gold moves to put the ball further away whilst blue was over the ball.
That, for me, was why blue ended up prone, and was a 'double movement' hence holding on.
The YC - think WB was hung out to dry a little there.
TMO calls it in. They watch it, it doesn't look so good. WB clearly asks (tone) if it was a YC, and TMO says look again (code for no). Then WB says so we'll give just the PK, and the TMO says he has more angles (code for no). I was really confused at that point, and wasn't expecting the card. Good example of why TMO and Ref need to be able to talk openly.
The "was it forward" pass - AR (GC?) was stationary, inline with it, and looking straight at it. Was AR's call, not WBs to make.
But overall - don't think WB had a great game. Lots of incidents I thought he got wrong (for example Blue tackled and isolated, then when gold go for the ball, Blue pulls it back in and then puts it back out, and Blue gets the PK). WB didn't seem his normal self. Think he'll be disappointed with the way it went.
TMO calls it in. They watch it, it doesn't look so good. WB clearly asks (tone) if it was a YC, and TMO says look again (code for no). Then WB says so we'll give just the PK, and the TMO says he has more angles (code for no). I was really confused at that point, and wasn't expecting the card. Good example of why TMO and Ref need to be able to talk openly.
The "was it forward" pass - AR (GC?) was stationary, inline with it, and looking straight at it. Was AR's call, not WBs to make.
But overall - don't think WB had a great game. Lots of incidents I thought he got wrong (for example Blue tackled and isolated, then when gold go for the ball, Blue pulls it back in and then puts it back out, and Blue gets the PK). WB didn't seem his normal self. Think he'll be disappointed with the way it went.
Crucial
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The funny thing is that the tackler didn't even go low. He aimed his tackle at the hip area. It was the way Folau's momentum had him go up and over that made it look at first glance like a chop at the legs.
No, the tackler did not get his arm up in time so fair call on a 'not grasping' tackle. I debate whether it was dangerous though and warranted a YC. The tackler's arm was coming up so there was no 'point of shoulder'. The tackler hadn't launched himself shoulder first at the legs either.