Assessment of a referees performance

[Taffy]

Don't want to harp on, but..........I would be interested to know opinions about the value of asking for feedback whether on the day or afterwards from the following

Captains
players
coaches
physios
spectators

I know that a few people think that asking the spectators is madness, but perhaps they provide a different angle to the game? And surely an old supporter who has sen many games is going to have some valuable comments?

or not?

 

[Dixie]

I think a lot depends on what you ask, how you ask it and what you do with the responses.

Remember that formalised assessing is as much a skill as reffing itself, and a poor assessor can do as much to cause a ref to jack it in as a poor experience in the middle. If you ask a spectator something open and non-specific, such as whether in his experience the ref on the day impacts the quality of the game, you may get interesting responses not specifically aimed at you. If, on the other hand, you ask how you did ... I suspect that every now and then you'll get a response that makes you want to slit your wrists, or at least reclaim your Saturdays.

 

[Drift]

I will make sure to chat to the coaches and the captains after the game if they want to chat. Other than that I am happy to talk to anyone who wants to chat but seeing as I tend to have my coach, my 2 ARs and my number 4 there we usually just talk with each other until the speeches happen.

 

[menace]

You get #no 4s in Vic???? Wholly sh!t .....you must be flushed with refs (don't they have anything better to do on saturday afternoon).

 

[Drift]

You get #no 4s in Vic???? Wholly sh!t .....you must be flushed with refs (don't they have anything better to do on saturday afternoon).

Only for 1st grade. 21 rounds for the season, 18 regular and 3 for finals, I would have had number 4s for about 15 of them. It helps when referees who are still affiliated with a club come down to watch that club after their games and I ask if they are keen to be number 4.

 

[Taff]

Don't want to harp on, but..........I would be interested to know opinions about the value of asking for feedback whether on the day or afterwards ... I know that a few people think that asking the spectators is madness, but perhaps they provide a different angle to the game? And surely an old supporter who has sen many games is going to have some valuable comments?

Apart from an assessor, the only one that counts really is what you think.

You will know if you had a good game or a bad game. Eg when I get back in the changing room, there is always a text from my wife asking how the game went. I always reply with a score out of 10. TBH I trust what my head tells me far more than what a miffed or happy coach tells me.

 

[Taffy]

Apart from an assessor, the only one that counts really is what you think.

You will know if you had a good game or a bad game. Eg when I get back in the changing room, there is always a text from my wife asking how the game went. I always reply with a score out of 10. TBH I trust what my head tells me far more than what a miffed or happy coach tells me.

Yep, understand this Taff and I reckon that's a great guide if we are true to ourselves! But I reckon on learning at least one thing from a match and I realise it can be quite stressing to ask people,how you did, but I am not convinced at all that there is a great science to the chat with the captains after the game when they just want to get back to their beer and are rarely going to be 100% blunt if you have been a complete fool.

I remember the third match I reffed 2 years ago and built myself up to ask the skipper who had lost on some feedback during the game and all I got was "we thought you missed a not straight line out in the 2nd half". Now part of me says that's great if that's all they can dredge up from the 80 minutes, but I am sure that a bit more of a scientific and accurate assessment would have helped me much more. I wonder if we are the only society that don't do captains cards?

 

[SimonSmith]

Captains - yes
players - front row, definitely
coaches - yes
physios - not likely.
spectators - not a hope in hell

Everyone has an opinion. Not every opinion is worth hearing

 

[Simon Thomas]

Referee assessment and development is a complex process and takes up a lot of time for all involved.

Your Society Training Team, the Match Observers, Assessors, Advisers, and Referee Coaches have specialised training courses and assessment themselves, as well as CPD in the same way referees have.

Feedback is just one aspect of the development and assessment process and can be structured or casual. I am intrigued to know what makes you so obsessed with asking for feedback from groups such as physios and spectators - at grassroots level some feedback from captains, coaches and players can have great value on both formal and casual basis and some is totally useless. Likewise you might have conversations with others, and make your own choice as to whether you use it or not.

Few of them would be able to offer structured, objective, constructive feedback, let alone turn it into solutions, advice and positive development proposals without undertaking the RFU assessors / trainer courses.

Many referees already get feedback from captains through the formal Society Match Card process, and engage in less formal feedback with some players, blazers, and even spectators. So do do Match Observers / Assessors as over the seasons we build up contacts and friendships with Coaches, Committee men, spectators and some players - all of whom's experience and judgement we might respect, accept or take with a pinch of salt.

Ask who you want for casual feedback but filter that feedback carefully. The formal assessment and feedback process in the Society is key as the foundation for your development, but of course other feedback you might get is useful.

 

[Taffy]

Feedback is just one aspect of the development and assessment process and can be structured or casual. I am intrigued to know what makes you so obsessed with asking for feedback from groups such as physios and spectators - at grassroots level some feedback from captains, coaches and players can have great value on both formal and casual basis and some is totally useless. Likewise you might have conversations with others, and make your own choice as to whether you use it or not.


Ask who you want for casual feedback but filter that feedback carefully. The formal assessment and feedback process in the Society is key as the foundation for your development, but of course other feedback you might get is useful.

Simon,

I'm probably more motivated than most because my society doesn't use feedback cards. Don't know why and would certainly be intrigued to know when and why it stopped.

There's loads of different opinions about how feedback can be skewed, the tale of the captain just wanting to get rid of you and therefore putting "GOOD" in all areas, the bad loser who then mails the card and marks you down as perhaps he feels one mistake might have cost his team the match.

I think you're spot on with the comment that the qualified assessor will be most helpful in improving your game, but I'm always keen to look at things from a different angle, it's what I have done all my life............sometimes someone from completely outside the organisation can have a grain of an idea that has legs.......sometimes not, but always good to listen and digest. I'm very cautious of things being carried on in the same way, because they have always been done that way. It doesn't mean to say that 80% of what is currently being done is not superb, but there are always new angles to look at things from. It's natural to do so.

I'm probably more cautious than others about asking for opinions. Many years ago just before we opened our first business we spent time asking friends what they thought about a retail shop location. Of course it turned out that they didn't really have any logic at all to back up what THEY JUST FELT and their opinions were not helpful at all. In the end I realised that it was better to ask a person qualified to offer an opinion and in some ways the spectators (if chosen carefully) might well be able to offer a seasoned and sensible view. This view might be terribly radical in the seasoned assessing department of refs, but in my opinion it's worth a look. No system is ever going to be foolproof, but I do wonder if the cards that are filled out by the captains are perhaps not as critical as they might be if done the following day and anonymously. Of course then you run into the issue that those done anonymously might be overtly critical..........difficult isn't it?

I'm not challenging the status quo just for the sake of it, but intrigued if we can together work on a better system and I suspect that on line and the day after is a better way to go than immediate and paper.

I still ill don't think that this replaces a chat with the captains and players, but that gives you a different feel about the game just played and their responses to that.

Not trying to be provocative. Just want to be the best ref that I can be!

 

[TheBFG]

Captains YES
players YES (if they want to, but ususaly they've gone home or too interested in "getting on it")
coaches YES YES YES (they can learn from you too!)
physios very rare to see one in the bar afterwards, but also depends how fit she is :wink:
spectators I won't ask them but if they want a chat that's fine

Conversations need to be 2-way though, I'm not there for them to have a moan at, but prepared to discuss match specifics

 

[FlipFlop]

Conversations need to be 2-way though, I'm not there for them to have a moan at, but prepared to discuss match specifics

That is the truth. Always like to start a conversation with a FR with the - "tell me what were you trying to do in those scrums?" type question - get them to admit their illegal play, and how you did/didn't spot it....