Assessment yesterday

Taffy


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This from yesterday. My assessor who is a good man and very helpful, if rather direct sees me after the game.


He says that my refereeing performance was "a bit of an enigma". He tells me that the way I refereed advantage ( ha ha - 3 tries scored from it!) was probably among the best of all the referees he had ever seen, but that there were a few incidents that let me down in particular.


The upshot of it is that it was not a performance that will help me go up a grade (bah) but will just keep me where I am. I'm keen to get some views on this. (There's a surprise). I'm not looking for support particularly just stuff that I can learn from.


1. I give a penalty for offside at the ruck. When explaining it to the captain he ask me who was offside and at the same time the player with the ball asks me if it is their penalty. I suddenly realise that I have the arm pointing the wrong way and say (totally in jest in a friendly game) "Ah yes well I was just pointing to the player and of course the penalty is to this side". I then change the signal around the right way and we are all happy. He says it was not helpful.


2. Yellow takes a quick throw in. I don't see the throw in and foolishly say "no quick one it has touched the touch judge". Would probably have got away with this, but was wired up and the assessor says everyone knew it had not, you lost credibility......guilty as charged......a bit of a dropped bollock really.


3. Not straight line out. I start to offer options to blue and some one from the pack shouts out "scrum please sir". I move to the 15 m line and the captain from blue says "what was the other option?" I say "the throw again, do you want to change your mind? We could probably do that".


I did know that if they had a penalty and they had elected to kick they cannot change their mind, but was it such a big deal?


I still have plenty of work to do at the tackle area. He says I am more confident and much more up with the game and as someone said in the week, from confidence comes competence.


Good comments from both teams after the game. Only 11 penalties, a bit of a scrum vest on a muddy pitch, but felt very low as I biked back..............


Will hold onto his advantage comments over the next week!
 

didds

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1 - genuine slip, no worries really.
2 - don't make it up... the assessor was right. everybody know you were talking bollix. You'd be better being honest - if you didn;t see that the QTI was on - say so. And run faster next time ;-)
3 - the captain/pack leader should know his options . somebody made a call. As long as you are certain it came from blue, by all means stick with it. You could of course still educate the captain, but explain that somebody had already made that call on his behalf. That said, TBH, I also don't see its a big thing if you gave him a chance, but stress that first call gets used in future.

I'm guessing that this was quite a low level match?

didds
 

Taffy


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1 - genuine slip, no worries really.
2 - don't make it up... the assessor was right. everybody know you were talking bollix. You'd be better being honest - if you didn;t see that the QTI was on - say so. And run faster next time ;-)
3 - the captain/pack leader should know his options . somebody made a call. As long as you are certain it came from blue, by all means stick with it. You could of course still educate the captain, but explain that somebody had already made that call on his behalf. That said, TBH, I also don't see its a big thing if you gave him a chance, but stress that first call gets used in future.

I'm guessing that this was quite a low level match?

didds

level 11. Friendly. Score 75 - 0
 

matty1194


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This from yesterday. My assessor who is a good man and very helpful, if rather direct sees me after the game.

Good comments from both teams after the game. Only 11 penalties, a bit of a scrum vest on a muddy pitch, but felt very low as I biked back.........

For me this in bold is the best type of assessor, im not a fan of the wishy washy ones, much prefer the straight talker.

In response to your 3 issues.

1. For me not an issue as long as the correct team take the penalty.
2. Yep bollock dropped there my friend - keep eyes on that ball at all time if options are on then if unsighted dont guess!
3. Award the scrum then inform the Captain that one of his forwards chose the scrum option, if he wants options then only he gives you them. Again similar to number 1, not that big of a deal. Say for example the Capt is the fullback and his pack leader is the hooker who has won everything so far, he would definatly want that scrum option, a quiet word sorts this issue out.

My 2 pence.

Didds, me and thee must be physic, as soon as I posted I saw your response.
 

Stuartg


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D
This from yesterday. My assessor who is a good man and very helpful, if rather direct sees me after the game.


He says that my refereeing performance was "a bit of an enigma". He tells me that the way I refereed advantage ( ha ha - 3 tries scored from it!) was probably among the best of all the referees he had ever seen, but that there were a few incidents that let me down in particular.


The upshot of it is that it was not a performance that will help me go up a grade (bah) but will just keep me where I am. I'm keen to get some views on this. (There's a surprise). I'm not looking for support particularly just stuff that I can learn from.


1. I give a penalty for offside at the ruck. When explaining it to the captain he ask me who was offside and at the same time the player with the ball asks me if it is their penalty. I suddenly realise that I have the arm pointing the wrong way and say (totally in jest in a friendly game) "Ah yes well I was just pointing to the player and of course the penalty is to this side". I then change the signal around the right way and we are all happy. He says it was not helpful.


2. Yellow takes a quick throw in. I don't see the throw in and foolishly say "no quick one it has touched the touch judge". Would probably have got away with this, but was wired up and the assessor says everyone knew it had not, you lost credibility......guilty as charged......a bit of a dropped bollock really.


3. Not straight line out. I start to offer options to blue and some one from the pack shouts out "scrum please sir". I move to the 15 m line and the captain from blue says "what was the other option?" I say "the throw again, do you want to change your mind? We could probably do that".


I did know that if they had a penalty and they had elected to kick they cannot change their mind, but was it such a big deal?


I still have plenty of work to do at the tackle area. He says I am more confident and much more up with the game and as someone said in the week, from confidence comes competence.


Good comments from both teams after the game. Only 11 penalties, a bit of a scrum vest on a muddy pitch, but felt very low as I biked back..............


Will hold onto his advantage comments over the next week!

Yes, they should know the options at the LO but you might say "Option, scrum or line?"

We've all pointed our arm in the wrong direction at a penalty then corrected it. Try to use a bit of humour, possibly against yourself, and look confident.

QT - we've all been caught at some point, learn from it. Ball in touch does not mean referee brain off time.
 

andyscott


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FFS if that is all you are getting wrong at level 11 you are doing well.

What about all other aspects of the game.
 

Daftmedic


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For me this in bold is the best type of assessor, im not a fan of the wishy washy ones, much prefer the straight talker.

In response to your 3 issues.

1. For me not an issue as long as the correct team take the penalty.
2. Yep bollock dropped there my friend - keep eyes on that ball at all time if options are on then if unsighted dont guess!
3. Award the scrum then inform the Captain that one of his forwards chose the scrum option, if he wants options then only he gives you them. Again similar to number 1, not that big of a deal. Say for example the Capt is the fullback and his pack leader is the hooker who has won everything so far, he would definatly want that scrum option, a quiet word sorts this issue out.

My 2 pence.

Didds, me and thee must be physic, as soon as I posted I saw your response.

Martty1194 but I was a soldier for over two millennia's
 

Simon Thomas


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We have match observers not assessors, and our focus is on referee development, not isolated gotchas, especially at the lower grades. Surely you got a lot more than that in your de-brief.

As for direct, it is the only way to have it. if I watch a referee he gets an objective de-brief, and at Society level the referee is given guidance, and encouraged to apply solutions.

Advantage is a key skill, so well done there.

You mention the tackle and that you work to do. Do that work as the tackle is the key thing to get right and the rest flows from it.

What about your management of offside lines, positioning at ruck/maul, line out setting and handling delayed throws & early jumpers, overall communication (use of colour & number, precise and limited to when needed, or are you are match commentator; use of whistle, signals and specific verbals; were you calm, cool, collected, confident, and competent ?).

The three incidents that you raise are all somewhat idosyncratic and un-necessary, but not major issues. As you get more experience you will get more consistent and confident and be less likely to "make it up as you go along".
 
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matty1194


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FFS if that is all you are getting wrong at level 11 you are doing well.

What about all other aspects of the game.

In agreement with both Andy and Simon Thomas and the valid points he makes he post #8.

Who however told you this:

The upshot of it is that it was not a performance that will help me go up a grade (bah) but will just keep me where I am.

The assessor on the day or has this come from your Society?
 
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Taffy


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We have match observers not assessors, and our focus is on referee development, not isolated gotchas, especially at the lower grades. Surely you got a lot more than that in your de-brief.

As for direct, it is the only way to have it. if I watch a referee he gets an objective de-brief, and at Society level the referee is given guidance, and encouraged to apply solutions.

Advantage is a key skill, so well done there.

You mention the tackle and that you work to do. Do that work as the tackle is the key thing to get right and the rest flows from it.

What about your management of offside lines, positioning at ruck/maul, line out setting and handling delayed throws & early jumpers, overall communication (use of colour & number, precise and limited to when needed, or are you are match commentator; use of whistle, signals and specific verbals; were you calm, cool, collected, confident, and competent ?).

The three incidents that you raise are all somewhat idosyncratic and un-necessary, but not major issues. As you get more experience you will get more consistent and confident and be less likely to "make it up as you go along".

Totally agree that direct is good.

Yes, have finally logged the fact that if you get the tackle right, the rest flows........think I have been getting the tackler to release.....but still need to work on the rolling away from the scene..........

offside lines, positioning, both quoted as very good. I have to say I felt calm and collected. Only one yellow for breakdown team offence which immediately got a "sorry sir". Signals were said to be very good. Whistle tone still needs to be worked on. Still plenty to work on....
 

Taffy


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In agreement with both Andy and Simon Thomas and the valid points he makes he post #8.

Who however told you this:



The assessor on the day or has this come from your Society?

The assessor on the day (who happens to be the grading secretary)........
 

SimonSmith


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I'd suggest that if you want to move up a grade, you have to referee to that standard at every game. The moment you take the approach that "ah well, it's a L11 friendly" and relax standards, then you're in trouble.

You let them change their minds in that game, your MO has to assume you'll do that in every game. And I'm sorry, your made-up 'ball hit the TJ' thing? That's just ****ing horrendous.
 

Dickie E


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Taffy, see if you can get missus or a mate to video you, bang it on Youtube, then we can all give you some live feedback (or at least have a laugh :))
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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"I said the ball's hit the touch judge so you can't take a quick throw... I didn't expect some sort of..

View attachment 3154

Spanish Inquisition"

Some of the comments as relayed sound a bit OTT in view of your Level. 11PKs in a game involving at least one team who doesn't know their LO options sounds very good. Try and eliminate the stuff that seems to have irked your MO and work on the stuff in ST's list.

If your advantage is that good that's excellent and like you say if you work on the Tackle Area (and its tranistion into ruck if applicable) - get that nailed then you will not be long at L11.

Keep your preventatives short and pertinent (Colour and Number if you can) and your signals big.

When you get tired and/or flustered the preventaives and signals can go to pot as you withdraw inside yourself (a bit like me in the snow on Saturday :biggrin:) so being fit enough is more than just keeping up with play at any particular level.
 
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Taffy


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Taffy, see if you can get missus or a mate to video you, bang it on Youtube, then we can all give you some live feedback (or at least have a laugh :))


In a spirit of providing some amusement, I wondered about this a while back. Any thoughts as to the best type of camera kit with sound preferably? If enough if us agreed we could share the kit back and forth.
 

Dickie E


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Just use a handycam on the grassy knoll
 

Phil E


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Taffy, reading between the lines on the three things listed, sounds like you are lacking decisive thought and decision making. Making it up, thinking about changing your kind, not good attributes if you want to progress.

Add to that your own comments about needing to referee the tackle area better, and not really working on getting players to roll away. This may be why your penalty count is low, because you are not picking up on offences you should be.

Someone on the committee should have experience, and for him to basically say "ok at this level but not ready for the next" there must be a reason.

All of the above is just hypothesis, so take it in that vein.
 
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