AUSvGEO - Naisani YC - a reason for concern?

[Jarrod Burton]

34:30 on game clock - 8Gold PK and YC for high contact during a clean out - Gold Ball carrier's torso is effectively horizontal and the tackler is low as he is falling backwards - I cannot see how else the player was meant to clean out a tackler. Hard to describe without video but those of you who saw it - is this really where Rugby is going?

Earlier on (13:10ish) Beale gets hit in the head with a forearm when the White 13 drops onto him from the side while making no attempt to stay up, but no card while Aus are down a player with HIA.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/...p/news-story/627a30f2a6e0bf5b84f23f0e8a0c4abf

Pascal seems to be pulling random penalties and calls out of his backside. I'm starting to become more concerned that the finals are going to be decided by a dubious call based on a slow-motion replay of a "rugby incident".

 

[TigerCraig]

I thought a penalty was fair enough but a YC

 

[beckett50]

I thought that the YC was justified as the mitigation was that the Georgia player was being held by an Australian team mate.

Naisani ran into the contact area and first made contact with the shoulder blade area of his team mate and this caused the upper arm to make contact with the front of the face of the Georgia player. It was this 'bouncing off the back' that took a lot of the impact out and caused the arm to make contact with the head.

Totally fair decision.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

I thought it was a YC as was the Georgian incident earlier.

 

[ChuckieB]

A lame attempt to bind onto his own player was my initial thought

 

[Camquin]

Every time I here someone bleating about a card for their team, I assume that it was lenient and therefore I have to assume the Aussie deserved red.
Every time I here someone claiming the opposition should have a card - I feel there team needs a card for dissent.

In all case you need to look at it assuming the teams were reversed.
And their is a risk that refs treat player the know more leniently than those they don't and as the top referees mainly referee the players from the tier one nations there is a risk they get an advantage.

 

[Jarrod Burton]

Every time I here someone bleating about a card for their team, I assume that it was lenient and therefore I have to assume the Aussie deserved red.
Every time I here someone claiming the opposition should have a card - I feel there team needs a card for dissent.

In all case you need to look at it assuming the teams were reversed.
And their is a risk that refs treat player the know more leniently than those they don't and as the top referees mainly referee the players from the tier one nations there is a risk they get an advantage.

Thanks for telling me that I'm one-eyed and unable to impartially make a judgement call based on a law set that I know fairly well. Must have forgotten meeting you.

Roles reversed and I wouldn't have had much of an issue with a PK as there was head contact, but a card was excessive . Wet, sh*tty conditions and contact/tackles being analysed within an inch of their life. Pascal set a precedent in not carding the Georgian 13 for what was illegal entry, illegally dropping onto a player on the floor and making contact with his head = PK after he reviewed it (allegedly reviewed, my replay was interrupted for adverts from a non-rugby state's TV channel).

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Every time I here someone bleating about a card for their team, I assume that it was lenient and therefore I have to assume the Aussie deserved red.
Every time I here someone claiming the opposition should have a card - I feel there team needs a card for dissent.

In all case you need to look at it assuming the teams were reversed.
And their is a risk that refs treat player the know more leniently than those they don't and as the top referees mainly referee the players from the tier one nations there is a risk they get an advantage.

There is a point in what you say. Coaches and fans generally see offences from their team's point of view. They're likely to be displaying subconscious bias. Of course some times there is nothing subconscious about it.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Thanks for telling me that I'm one-eyed and unable to impartially make a judgement call based on a law set that I know fairly well. Must have forgotten meeting you.

Roles reversed and I wouldn't have had much of an issue with a PK as there was head contact, but a card was excessive . Wet, sh*tty conditions and contact/tackles being analysed within an inch of their life. Pascal set a precedent in not carding the Georgian 13 for what was illegal entry, illegally dropping onto a player on the floor and making contact with his head = PK after he reviewed it (allegedly reviewed, my replay was interrupted for adverts from a non-rugby state's TV channel).

For me, under current laws / guidance, they were both cards.

Should that be the way? Well that is a different debate.

 

[Ian_Cook]

For me, under current laws / guidance, they were both cards.

Should that be the way? Well that is a different debate.

Agree, and agree.

 

[belladonna]

At the risk of seeming a little off topic I was watching Ire v Sam today as a neutral observer.
I couldn't help noticing that if I'd been an Ireland fan I would have been incensed that Samoa got yellow and "we" got Red.
And I'd have been convinced I was right, too.
But as a neutral, I could see the difference.
In one case there was enough mitigation (BC dropping) to make it yellow, in the other, not.
Sorry to any Ireland fans as it must sting, as Bundee Aki will no doubt get suspended now, even though I don't believe he meant any harm. But congrats on a good win with 14 over determined opposition.
I hope this post helps assuage any hurt feelings from those with skin in the game from other matches.
(For my own part as a Wales fan, regular reminders about Sam Warburton's red still sting...)

 

[Decorily]

I couldn't help noticing that if I'd been an Ireland fan I would have been incensed that Samoa got yellow and "we" got Red..)

Personally I wouldn't agree...I think the two were different and handled appropriately.

 

[TigerCraig]

YC, just, for the Irishman, penalty, just, for the samoan. But I am clearly out if touch with 'rugby' now

 

[belladonna]

Personally I wouldn't agree...I think the two were different and handled appropriately.

Yes - I agree completely. Good decisions all round.
What I was saying was that if I'd been partisan I think my feelings would have clouded my judgement.
Perhaps we human beings are more emotional than we'd like to think ?

 

[crossref]

My impression now is that people generally seem to appreciate refs are following a framework .. the debate is movingg to whether the framework is a good one

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Personally I wouldn't agree...I think the two were different and handled appropriately.

The reasoning for the different calls were clearly spelt out, and fair.


Of course we could possible question the accuracy of the officials observations. But that is, again, a different point.

 

[irishref]

I'm Irish but agreed on both the Yellow (Stockdale ducking into contact thus mitigation) and the Red (no mitigation).

 

[belladonna]

I'm Irish but agreed on both the Yellow (Stockdale ducking into contact thus mitigation) and the Red (no mitigation).

Well done you
I'm not sure if you've just proved me completely wrong, or if you are the exception that proves the rule! ;-)
Perhaps your referee training/experience has something to do with it?
I'm not so sure that many fans without that would have the same view.
Although to be fair BOD said as much in the studio after the match... but then again, he has the viewpoint of an ex-pro player, so again not your typical fan.

 

[Jarrod Burton]

World Rugby have uploaded the highlights.
YC here https://youtu.be/6sG7dq-Z8Jk?t=589

I'd be interested to know opinions that if Naisani had come in lower and aimed to bind to the hips of the BC, which would have almost certainly resulted in contact to the tacklers head, would be they calling for a YC or higher?

I'd also wonder why no check for head contact from the tackle support (4) was made given the way that the BC was hit initially.

Ultimately its the frame by frame analysis of these contacts which worries me, we start analysing a highly dynamic game at the pace of a geriatric tortoise and expect players to recognise a change body shape in .05 of a second and respond like a robot rather than the imperfect human body.