Bath Vs Wasps 8.1.21

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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Wales in recent years (Gatland era) went through a phase of adding backs to their maul if they had a 5m attacking lineout. The backs invariably came in from 10m away when the LO had not moved off the LoT (MoT). I can't remember them or anyone else for that matter being penalised for it. I think it's one of those you keep doing it 'til you do.
 

crossref


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The problem is that the officials are very much focused on the formation and dynamics of the maul and encroachment tends to be a secondary aspect of the refereeing at that point. Most of the time it is immaterial- and then we have a penalty try, half-time talk and an inconsistency between halves.

it strikes me that the pros could do this very easily - ref and nearside AR watch the maul. far side AR watches to keep both sides 10m back .
of course the far side AR is not going to be able to see the maul clearly, being some distance away, and focusing on the backs as he is, .. so he is going to need a clear signal from the ref to show when the lineout is over....


me? I do all the jobs.
 

OB..


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I think the key thing here is, there is no official signal for when the line out is over.
Convention to me was always arm straight up and comes down when the ref decides you have moved off the line of touch.
That is clear to players, crowd and ARs however it is not a recognised official signal.
I think it should be, then there would be no dispute.
At top level ARs can clearly see and communicate to the ref that attack or defence have encroached.
Problem solved .
While I'm at it, there appears to be no official signal for the ref to indicate an attempt at a penalty goal has been selected.
Always used to be two arms outstretched then move indicating towards the posts.
Again clear to crowd/players/ARs . Everyone used to do it until St. Nigel invented the phrase "shot" and used his one finger shuffle to point .
The two arm signal should become official.
Agreed.
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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Well,

There are signals. 3 of them. all in the lawbook.

1. Ball is out of l/o

2. Maul is driven past LOT

3. Ball is thrown past 15 m

Let the players think
 

Ciaran Trainor


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Well,

There are signals. 3 of them. all in the lawbook.

1. Ball is out of l/o

2. Maul is driven past LOT

3. Ball is thrown past 15 m

Let the players think

Can you send us a link to these signals, there is nothing in the latest world rugby laws download
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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Can you send us a link to these signals, there is nothing in the latest world rugby laws download

I'm wrong there are five signals

ENDING A LINEOUT

The lineout ends when:
The ball or a player in possession of the ball:

leaves the lineout
; or

enters the area between the touchline and the five-metre line; or

goes beyond the 15-metre line.




A ruck or maul forms and all of the feet of all of the players in the ruck or maul move beyond the mark of touch.
The ball becomes unplayable.

Or perhaps we can continue to hold their hand and put the offside onus on the ref
 

Dickie E


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Or perhaps we can continue to hold their hand and put the offside onus on the ref

I take your point about players needing to make their own decisions but it is tricky knowing when the maul crosses the LoT from 10 metres back and it is sound preventive (preventative?) refereeing to assist
 

Decorily

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At the risk of sounding like my 22 year old daughter....

Sorry. ...but are we talking about Laws or signals????
 

Decorily

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I take your point about players needing to make their own decisions but it is tricky knowing when the maul crosses the LoT from 10 metres back and it is sound preventive (preventative?) refereeing to assist

IMHO...refereeing should be all about 'assisting'!
 

didds

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I'm wrong there are five signals

ENDING A LINEOUT

The lineout ends when:
The ball or a player in possession of the ball:

leaves the lineout
; or

enters the area between the touchline and the five-metre line; or

goes beyond the 15-metre line.




A ruck or maul forms and all of the feet of all of the players in the ruck or maul move beyond the mark of touch.
The ball becomes unplayable.

These are not signals.

They are laws.

didds
 

Balones

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We help players to adhere to / comply with the laws by using signals at appropriate times. A player 50M from the action cannot see what the referee can 1M in front of him/her. They are also used to explain a decision when the laws have not been complied with.
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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These are not signals.

They are laws.

didds

no shit,

I can't make you drink, I can't even lead you to water.

Consider this, perhaps the ref should put the ball in the scrum also. You know to make sure it is straight.
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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They are also used to explain a decision when the laws have not been complied with.

Actually, that is all signals are to be used. And with the exception of advantage, signals occur after a whistle to explain a decision.

Any other clues, or physical hints have influence on play. Refs should not have influence on a players decision at the risk of an unequal application to either side (intentionally or especially unintentionally)
 

OB..


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Consider this, perhaps the ref should put the ball in the scrum also. You know to make sure it is straight.

France v Wales February 17 1920
"Both sides made most of the last five minutes' play, otherwise the Welsh and French half- backs could hardly be excused for putting the ball into the scrum so keenly during that period. Eventually, the referee, who had been moderate and, at the same time, stern, in his decisions, had, on one occasion, to put the ball in himself."
(Times report)
 

Balones

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Actually, that is all signals are to be used. And with the exception of advantage, signals occur after a whistle to explain a decision.

Any other clues, or physical hints have influence on play. Refs should not have influence on a players decision at the risk of an unequal application to either side (intentionally or especially unintentionally)

I accept the legal point you are making. However, I was not making a point strictly in relation to laws and the law book. Signals have arisen because of a need to make the game more palatable to watch and play. If we didn’t use them then there would be far more penalty offences because players couldn’t see what the referee was seeing, players not understanding the laws as well as the referee does (hopefully!) etc. There is also the matter of deaf players who wouldn’t hear the referee and also in certain environments players not hearing the referee because of crowd noise. They also communicate to the crowd which makes the game more enjoyable and understandable for them as well as keeping some pressure off the players and referee for the decisions they make. Or are you, by your inference, suggesting that the referee shouldn’t use verbal communication either prior to an offence? Using signals also protects the referee’s voice.:)
 

crossref


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And with the exception of advantage, signals occur after a whistle to explain a decision.

good challenge !

signals I can think of that I use i use during play
- play on
- went backwards (i.e I saw it, but it wasn't a knock on)
- lineout over
- get back (ie to opposing backs, if fringing offside)
 

Dickie E


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good challenge !

signals I can think of that I use i use during play
- play on
- went backwards (i.e I saw it, but it wasn't a knock on)
- lineout over
- get back (ie to opposing backs, if fringing offside)

but none of those are defined in the good book
 
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