Being Rewarded (with a PK)

[crossref]

I reckon that adult rugby should take a leaf out of the junior guidelines and have a pushing limit. Say 2m

That would give the dominant scrum ample opportunity to get a benefit from their dominance, and dissuade the retreating scrum from dropping or wheeling.

I must admit, I haven’t thought about this very deeply, but it seems a good idea on the face of it

Especially now that there are very few 5m attacking scrums (previously almost all for held up, now replaced by GLDO) .
So no real reason to push more than 2m

 

[Phil E]

Especially now that there are very few 5m attacking scrums (previously almost all for held up, now replaced by GLDO) .
So no real reason to push more than 2m

You clearly didn't watch the weekends Premiership action?

 

[crossref]

You clearly didn't watch the weekends Premiership action?

I didn't! ,
Too much international rugby and football

what happened?

 

[didds]

TBH the prop in me rejects Mipper's idea cos I LOVED push over tries.
But the pragmatist in me then says "why not? quick ball with the oppo backs retreating is powerful, and it reduces this scrum=PK mentality.

Quite when/why the smash the oppo now becomes a PK after years/decades of packs smashing the oppo at scrumtime NOT being so Im unsure
I can only think that more recently additions to scrummaging laws added "must push straight" and now it means there were new laws to be broken that weren't there before

If so ISTR those came in because of the scrum issues due to smash and go, which was a result of permitting squint feeds ( becasue "they are immaterial" ? Or "Im not looking for squint feeds" ?).

Hmmm.

cause and effect. maybe...

 

[Harry]

I LOVED push over tries.

Oh yeah a thing of exquisite beauty. We won my last ever match with a pushover, in the last minutes of the game, with me at TH.

 

[Dickie E]

If a team is getting smashed in the scrums and they're looking to go uncontested,(or I'm about to require uncontested for safety reasons) I'll suggest to both captains that we adopt U19 scrum law. Often both captains will go with this. Keeps the contest without the pain

 

[crossref]

If a team is getting smashed in the scrums and they're looking to go uncontested,(or I'm about to require uncontested for safety reasons) I'll suggest to both captains that we adopt U19 scrum law. Often both captains will go with this. Keeps the contest without the pain

We have that option as well

RFU

www.englandrugby.com

 

[SimonSmith]

TBH the prop in me rejects Mipper's idea cos I LOVED push over tries.
But the pragmatist in me then says "why not? quick ball with the oppo backs retreating is powerful, and it reduces this scrum=PK mentality.

Quite when/why the smash the oppo now becomes a PK after years/decades of packs smashing the oppo at scrumtime NOT being so Im unsure
I can only think that more recently additions to scrummaging laws added "must push straight" and now it means there were new laws to be broken that weren't there before

If so ISTR those came in because of the scrum issues due to smash and go, which was a result of permitting squint feeds ( becasue "they are immaterial" ? Or "Im not looking for squint feeds" ?).

Hmmm.

cause and effect. maybe...

Somewhere in the history of these here pages there is a masterful diatribe by a Mr Brian Moore explaining precisely why scrums have gone to shit.

He had one simple solution - ensure the straight put in. Once teams know they have a fair shot at competition, 95% of the buggering about goes away. Unfortunately, we have bred hooking hookers out of the game.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

I reckon that adult rugby should take a leaf out of the junior guidelines and have a pushing limit. Say 2m

That would give the dominant scrum ample opportunity to get a benefit from their dominance, and dissuade the retreating scrum from dropping or wheeling.

I must admit, I haven’t thought about this very deeply, but it seems a good idea on the face of it

An idea worth investigating.

 

[didds]

Somewhere in the history of these here pages there is a masterful diatribe by a Mr Brian Moore explaining precisely why scrums have gone to shit.

He had one simple solution - ensure the straight put in. Once teams know they have a fair shot at competition, 95% of the buggering about goes away. Unfortunately, we have bred hooking hookers out of the game.

yup... which was where i was going with that

 

[didds]

Go back abnd find highlights of england smashing ireland's scrum years ago. It blatantly came to the point where england - becvause they knew they could - woiuld just use a scrum for a PK win and/or YC

Found it - 2012!

Incidentally for a perfect example of "elbow up" watch Corbisiero (England #1) from 4:47 video time in that link.
England's penalty try at about 7:30 or so is I'd say an example of NO having seen a pattern and a picture all day and being influenced by that - because England push before the ball comes in ... (caveat : Im assuming that was not permissible ten years ago)

 

[didds]

Maybe a slight variation, when the ball is at the back it must be played immediately if not moving forward, rather than the 8 keeping the ball at his/her feet until the penalty comes.

shouldn't that already be the case though? I thought that was already law - since sometime in the late 90s/early 80s? I trhouvght that was brought in to stop sides from running the clock down by holding the ball at #8 and doing nothing else at the scrum.

??

didds

 

[crossref]

shouldn't that already be the case though? I thought that was already law - since sometime in the late 90s/early 80s? I trhouvght that was brought in to stop sides from running the clock down by holding the ball at #8 and doing nothing else at the scrum.

??

didds

When the scrum is stationary and the ball has been available at the back of the scrum for three-five seconds, the referee calls “use it”. The team must then play the ball out of the scrum immediately. Sanction: Scrum.

 

[crossref]

odd that this 'use it' is immediatiely, but at a ruck use it starts a 5-sec countdown

 

[DocP]

agree but according to the law it has already been stationary at the back for 3-5 seconds so is deemed available to play immediately with no "digging out" necessary.

 

[didds]

odd that this 'use it' is immediatiely, but at a ruck use it starts a 5-sec countdown

"y and the ball has been available at the back of the scrum for three-five seconds, t"
maybe its just that theyve already had their 5 seconds ?

I agree its 4rse about face

 

[Stu10]

So another example of actually applying the law properly... it feels to me that teams have the ball at the back for 5 seconds, then after use it they are being allowed another 5 seconds... I've lost track how many games I've heard the ref shout use it at the scrum, then 3-4 seconds later award a penalty because the front row has finally buckled... IMHO this scenario should not result in a penalty.

 

[didds]

So another example of actually applying the law properly... it feels to me that teams have the ball at the back for 5 seconds, then after use it they are being allowed another 5 seconds... I've lost track how many games I've heard the ref shout use it at the scrum, then 3-4 seconds later award a penalty because the front row has finally buckled... IMHO this scenario should not result in a penalty.

Im certainly not calling you out here, but I think Id need to see some videos of this happening to fully understand what you may mean. Cos frankly I cant see any reason for awarding a PK for a collapse if the ball is at the #8s feet for several seconds, going nowhere.

 

[Camquin]

When the scrum is stationary and the ball has been available at the back of the scrum for three-five seconds, the referee calls “use it”. The team must then play the ball out of the scrum immediately. Sanction: Scrum.

Now you might think three to five seconds is too long, you do need to leave enough time for the scrum to move again.
And it is immediately, now another five seconds.
I was taught that was no longer as it takes you to say im-med-i-ate-ly. So what, one to two seconds?

 

[Stu10]

Im certainly not calling you out here, but I think Id need to see some videos of this happening to fully understand what you may mean. Cos frankly I cant see any reason for awarding a PK for a collapse if the ball is at the #8s feet for several seconds, going nowhere.

I'll keep an eye out for some examples... there was a clear one that I saw recently, but there has been so much rugby over the past couple of weeks I can't remember which game.