Bin time

ckuxmann


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If I were to bin someone at 71:00 of the second half and a team is playing in time expired and are given a penalty at 81:05 can the player come back on?
 

Bryan


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Yes.

That being said, dont stop a team from taking a quick tap to bring the player back on (that goes for either team with a player in the bin).
 

ckuxmann


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Of course not, but I'm just saying in general if a team asks, but I was reading the definitions and it was talking about playing time so I wasn't sure if the clock stopped at 80 mins or kept running.
 

Dickie E


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Not for me.

Player can only return at stoppage in play - injury, scrum, lineout or after a score.

Therefore a player binned at 71 mins may as well head to the showers for an early one.
 

The Fat


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Not for me.

Player can only return at stoppage in play - injury, scrum, lineout or after a score.

Therefore a player binned at 71 mins may as well head to the showers for an early one.

That is my understanding also.
 

ckuxmann


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Would you let a player on during playing time at a PK?

Here is what I was referencing:
Sin bin: The designated area in which a temporarily suspended player must remain for 10 minutes playing time.
Playing time: The time that has been played excluding time lost as defined in
Law 5 - Time.
 

The Fat


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Hmm.... now you have me thinking.
I always thought that you had to wait for a stopage in play ie: scrum, lineout, score before a player could rejoin the game or a replacement/substitution be made. A PK is not one of those times eg: when a PK is awarded, the water carriers are not allowed onto the field as it is not a stopage.
 

ckuxmann


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I was always under the understanding that the team in possession may do what they wanted in terms of subbing and if they chose to sub the other team may also.
 

Simon Thomas


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where is that stated in Law or local Union Regulations ?
 

OB..


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Law 10.5 (a) A player who infringes any part of the Foul Play Law must be admonished, or cautioned and temporarily suspended for a period of ten minutes' playing time, or sent-off.

Law 3.11 (b) A player who leaves a match because of injury or any other reason must not rejoin the match until the referee permits the player to return. The referee must not let a player rejoin a match until the ball is dead.

Dead: The ball is out of play. This happens when the ball has gone outside the playing area and remained there, or when the referee has blown the whistle to indicate a stoppage in play, or when a conversion kick has been taken.

Law 6.A.7 (e) The referee must blow the whistle when the ball has gone out of play, or when it has become unplayable, or when a penalty is awarded.

The nett result is that the situation is unclear :(

It would appear that the ball can be dead, alive, or "half-dead". When the ball goes into touch, the referee is required to blow his whistle but play is not really dead until a Quick Throw-in is no longer an option. Similarly at a penalty, play is not in fact dead until a team elects to kick at goal, since they have the option to tap and run. The ball is defined as dead after a conversion kick, but for how long? The opponents can restart without the referee blowing his whistle (because he won't). The law does not deal with these situations.

I think it makes sense to allow a binned player back on when a QT is no longer an option, when a team has indicated a kick at goal, and when a conversion kick has been taken, because the referee holding up the game does not affect play at those times.
 

Davet

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If a player is binned at 71 minutes then he will no be returning - the period of suspension is playing time, so while the clock is off his suspension clock is off as well.

I would suggest that if they team awarded the PK want their man back then I'd allow it, but they cannot bring him on when the PK is awarded to the opposition.
 

OB..


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If a player is binned at 71 minutes then he will no be returning - the period of suspension is playing time, so while the clock is off his suspension clock is off as well.
The OP posited a situation where 90+ seconds of continuous play followed after time expired, and then ended with a penalty. The 10 minute playing time for the bin has expired and the game has not ended.
 

sgoat


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I agree with Nick (sorry Bryan)!

Also I was always told that if you YC someone in the first half, e.g. at 35 mins, and continue to play till 42 minutes then the player only has 3 mins in the sin bin at the start of the second half, not 5 mins.

This doesn't usually make a lot of difference in the 15 man game, but in 7s it can have a greater effect. With a 2 min sin bin and the ball in play a lot longer without a stoppage you could card a guy at 6 and a half mins and him be straight on at the start of the second half.
 

Robert Burns

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Wasn't there a law ruling that said teams could bring back on sin binned players, or make subs at their own penalty?

It's late, I'll look for it tomorrow.
 

OB..


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Wasn't there a law ruling that said teams could bring back on sin binned players, or make subs at their own penalty?

It's late, I'll look for it tomorrow.

Ruling 2 of 2007
1. A penalty kick is awarded to White team. Before the kick is taken, can
White team make a substitution? (If so, we assume that the substitute can
take the penalty kick.)
2. A penalty kick is awarded to White team. Before the kick is taken can a
previously sin-binned White player return; given that the 10 minutes have fully
elapsed? (If so, we assume that the returning player may take the penalty
kick.)
The Designated Members have ruled the following in answer to the question
raised:
A substitution can only be made when the ball is dead. A referee must not let
a player rejoin the match until the ball is dead. The ball is dead when the ball
is out of play. This happens when the ball has gone outside the playing area
and remained there, or when the referee has blown the whistle to indicate a
stoppage in play, or when a conversion kick has been taken.
In both cases outlined above, the ball is dead, and therefore the answer to
each question is in the affirmative.
 

Bryan


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My answer of "YES" was due to the following:

1. The Law is Unclear
2. There was a ruling that a player could be substituted at a PK

Now, say your goal-kicker is in the BIN, and you're awarded a PK after 80 minutes of playing time. How the f**k are you going to justify that the team can substitute anyone they want, but cant allow the player in the bin to return to the field of play?

Basically, if your goal kicker is on the bench, this is more advantageous than if he is in the bin and the 10 minutes have expired?

Bullsh!t.

The Law isnt clear, so apply equity based on the previous ruling regarding substitutes, and make the leap to say that a player in the bin can also return.
 

crossref


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I was always under the understanding that the team in possession may do what they wanted in terms of subbing and if they chose to sub the other team may also.

I think that given the lacuna in the Laws this is practical and equitable, and this is pretty much how I ref it.. and that's the answer to the OP.

If it was the team in possession I think they can bring the YC back on.
If it's not the team in possession then most likely no. But if the team in possession go into a huddle to decide what to do... then I don't see why the other team can't meanwhile bring their YC player back on.
 

Robert Burns

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Law ruling OB shows makes it clear.

Yes he can come back.
 

Davet

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OK - PK after 10 mins of playing time, let him back if they choose to slow it down, if its an oppo pk and they want to go quick then he cannot com eback just then.
 

Robert Burns

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That's correct. Opp can only make changes at a pk or fk if it is their kick, or opposition do so.
 
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