Botha scrum problems

[ChrisR]

I subscribe to "The Rugby Site" (www.therugbysite.com) and a couple of weeks ago a Murray Kinsella article got my attention.

"Scrums,Props and Referees", on BJ Botha's problems in a Munster match refereed by Wayne Barnes, has embedded video of three scrums where Botha was PK'd and subsequently warned that he'd be headed for a ten minute rest if he didn't 'straighten up' (pun intended).

You can't see the video without signing on to the site so The Rugby Site folks have given me an access code for the next ten days (it expires Jan 21st).

The code will allow you to access all features of the site for free.

To set up an account for yourself go to www.therugbysite.com/account/redeem_voucher

and follow the subscription path to "Enter a voucher" (or something of the sort) and use this code:

ARX9GHE

or:

Go to www.therugbysite.com/session/new

and use reffingrugby@gmail.com with a password of r3f3r33

I have no connection to this site other than as a subscriber but it has some quality stuff and for me, as a coach, is well worth the $$$.

 

[ChrisR]

If you gained access to the site then select "Articles", then sort by contributor and select "Murray Kinsella" and his recent article titled "Scrums, Props and Referees".

Did Wayne Barnes get it wrong? I think so. Take a look.

 

[Pegleg]

You don't get a great view with Barnes in view. That said I don't think Botha can have too many complaints.

 

[RobLev]

You don't get a great view with Barnes in view. That said I don't think Botha can have too many complaints.

That was my impression. He's consistently binding illegally (unless they've changed the rules and an armpit bind is now legal), and in the only sequence where you can actually see what's happening (the second) he sets up to drive in on the hooker.

 

[ChrisR]

Interesting, because I see it quite differently.

First, Botha's bind. It is on the armpit but it's high, not on the arm and he has no leverage. Not an issue for me.

Scrum 1. His feet are square and I don't see him boring in. Not so the Clermont LH, look at his feet. Still, this isn't the issue. Botha's feet go out from under him before the ball comes in. PK? No way, reset, no advantage gained here.

Scrum 2. Unfortunately we jump from WB's chest cam to a wide view so miss the detail. Botha gets called for boring in. Yes, the front row goes sideways but I'm thinking it's White 1, not Botha. Nevertheless, the front row goes down as the ball reaches the back row. It's "Play it" from me, not a PK.

Scrum 3. The front row shears but the Clermont pack are driving it around to the left. Red 7 unbinds early and goes for the ball still under feet. Also White 8 unbinds and rebinds between flank & lock. Not sure why Botha gets any attention here and gets a warning.

Makes me wonder if Botha didn't have a bulls eye on him.

 

[RobLev]

Interesting, because I see it quite differently.

First, Botha's bind. It is on the armpit but it's high, not on the arm and he has no leverage. Not an issue for me.

He's pushing the loosehead down and pulling him underneath, letting him get his right shoulder across to bore in.

Scrum 1. His feet are square and I don't see him boring in. Not so the Clermont LH, look at his feet. Still, this isn't the issue. Botha's feet go out from under him before the ball comes in. PK? No way, reset, no advantage gained here.

Scrum 2. Unfortunately we jump from WB's chest cam to a wide view so miss the detail. Botha gets called for boring in. Yes, the front row goes sideways but I'm thinking it's White 1, not Botha. Nevertheless, the front row goes down as the ball reaches the back row. It's "Play it" from me, not a PK.

He sets up with his feet square to the LH's; which means that when he binds, his body is angled across to bore in on the hooker.

Scrum 3. The front row shears but the Clermont pack are driving it around to the left. Red 7 unbinds early and goes for the ball still under feet. Also White 8 unbinds and rebinds between flank & lock. Not sure why Botha gets any attention here and gets a warning.

Makes me wonder if Botha didn't have a bulls eye on him.

Probably because before any of that happens, so far as I can see Botha is driving East-West, not North-South.

 

[ChrisR]

RobLev, disagree on all points.

This really demonstrates the difficulty in adjudicating front row issues.

 

[RobLev]

RobLev, disagree on all points.

This really demonstrates the difficulty in adjudicating front row issues.

...certainly from video sequences apparently deliberately chosen by Mr Kinsella so as to show the least detail possible in an endlessly looping small sized format.

 

[ChrisR]

.... so as to show the least detail possible ....

Do you have anything better?

 

[RobLev]

.... so as to show the least detail possible ....

Do you have anything better?

Sorry, Marauder, no criticism of you; I suspect though that if we could see what was going on rather better, I'm not sure we'd be disagreeing. Why Mr Kinsella chose to illustrate his point as he did, I don't know, but we have to work with what we've got.

 

[L'irlandais]

...

Makes me wonder if Botha didn't have a bulls eye on him.

Agree, I felt Wayne Barnes was poor on the night. Not just in his singling Botha out.
For example scrum penalised (30 minutes of play) shows his biais.
Clermont knock on outside the Munster 10 meter line, Munster put-in. Then Botha was penalised for wheeling the scrum. Compare with a second half scrum, similar field position but Clermont put-in : 55 minutes of play Clermont wheel the scrum pst 90° twice in their own half. Should have been "Turnover ball" for my money. Yet our esteemed Ref gives them the put in again.

62 minutes of play Nick Abendanon Kocked out cold. (18.56 real time) Player was clearly in a very bad way going off, yet 8 Minutes later Abendanon back on for Nalaga. Ref should not have allowed it.

Match report

 

[SimonSmith]

Bias? Really? C'mon.