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...........and no reference to the put in?
Brian Moore becomes a ref.
- Thread starter Toby Warren
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...........and no reference to the put in?
"....he can't take the second one quickly.."
Which, of course, "he" can if the referee chooses to make the mark quickly.
(Interesting that the other commentator shut him up at that point - obviously doesn't want to let finer points of Law get in the way of a story.)
ballsie
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Oh dear I am a quaified ref, if I had a quid for every time a heard that remark on a sunday morning I would be pretty well off
Get some games under your belt like ten years worth of soceity appts, countless junior games and mini festivals, bleating parents and coaches and turning up to cancelled matches then and only then may I beleive you Brian until then get out there with your whistle and get qualified
cheers
Get some games under your belt like ten years worth of soceity appts, countless junior games and mini festivals, bleating parents and coaches and turning up to cancelled matches then and only then may I beleive you Brian until then get out there with your whistle and get qualified
cheers
ballsie
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Maybe he would come along to our society dinner and share with us some of his refereeing experiences
or would his fee be to large...then do a local vets game on the saturday afternoon Portsmouth v Havant would be a good place to start,, no touch judges just two teams of wiley players he would enjoy that..ST can we make that happen
or would his fee be to large...then do a local vets game on the saturday afternoon Portsmouth v Havant would be a good place to start,, no touch judges just two teams of wiley players he would enjoy that..ST can we make that happen
To be fair to Brian, I suspect he will do a very good job despite being a novice. I have seen a former premiership player in his first game or so, and he was FAR better than any other novice I have seen. He shot up the ranks.
Wert Twacky
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Who was that OB?
Chris Horstman is doing a reasonable job in Brizzol so I understand - go the front row, they have some use
Chris Horstman is doing a reasonable job in Brizzol so I understand - go the front row, they have some use
Greg Collins
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Which is fair enough. So a more general question
Would any other new ref of the same age get the same level of resources poured into them as the ex- or current pro's turned refs seem to do?
It may be their ability to progress is less to do with their ability per se than it is to do the coaching assistance they seem to get.
I'm aware that sounds a tad churlish. I don't mean it to I'm genuinely interested.
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This isn't to detract from what BCM is doing - it's admirable, and increases my respect for him no end.
But as others have alluded to, unless you have done or are prepared to do the grind, the perennial half arsed f*ckknuckles on the sideline/pitch and dealt with the myriad queries that surface on this site, then you're not a referee. You're someone with a qualification.
And having a qualification, and actually doing something are VERY different things.
But as others have alluded to, unless you have done or are prepared to do the grind, the perennial half arsed f*ckknuckles on the sideline/pitch and dealt with the myriad queries that surface on this site, then you're not a referee. You're someone with a qualification.
And having a qualification, and actually doing something are VERY different things.
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Respect to Brian Moore and good luck to him. It is a good peice in the Telegraph and he covers the points well - but as a typical niaive ELRA starter ! Brian will soon change his view on defensive line postioning after a few matches - I know I did.
All players cheat, and I would suggest guys like me as ex-scrum halves nake the best refs ! But his point that he knows where to look is right, and definoitely helped me (and I know others) progress up the grades rapidly.
He has done ELRA stages 1 & 2, but now any new Society Referee has to do Stage 3 of six self-logged matches plus a formal assessment match. After that a few months learning the trade with 4th XV, and U14s/U15s and thereafter up the levels as the referee makes commitments and develops.
BM's ELRA is a great PR opportunity to attract new referees, so of course RFU will commit resources to it !
And as Ballsie says Brian is welcome anytime at one of our Society meetings (we have Barnsey tonight fresh from Paris - can't wait to ask some questions about reversing into defensive lines etc !), or at or dinner, or to do a match (with TJs Panel guys if he wants) awy from the lights of London at discrete quiet Hampshire club.
Greg - the answer to your question is that coaching & advising can accelerate a referee's potential only so far, but if the skills are not there at a high enough level (management, communication, positioning, decision making, law knowledge, judgement & materiality) they hit a ceiling, even with an ex-pro semi-pro player. There are many high grade referees that did not play as high as they ref now, and also lots of ex-high grade players who never get to ref as high as they played. We and other Societies (from what I see in South West Group) allocate resources if we have them to everyone, but those with the highest observed potential (and commitment) get perhaps a larger share as they climb the ranks - thagt is the basis on which all elite sport is based as resources are always finite.
All players cheat, and I would suggest guys like me as ex-scrum halves nake the best refs ! But his point that he knows where to look is right, and definoitely helped me (and I know others) progress up the grades rapidly.
He has done ELRA stages 1 & 2, but now any new Society Referee has to do Stage 3 of six self-logged matches plus a formal assessment match. After that a few months learning the trade with 4th XV, and U14s/U15s and thereafter up the levels as the referee makes commitments and develops.
BM's ELRA is a great PR opportunity to attract new referees, so of course RFU will commit resources to it !
And as Ballsie says Brian is welcome anytime at one of our Society meetings (we have Barnsey tonight fresh from Paris - can't wait to ask some questions about reversing into defensive lines etc !), or at or dinner, or to do a match (with TJs Panel guys if he wants) awy from the lights of London at discrete quiet Hampshire club.
Greg - the answer to your question is that coaching & advising can accelerate a referee's potential only so far, but if the skills are not there at a high enough level (management, communication, positioning, decision making, law knowledge, judgement & materiality) they hit a ceiling, even with an ex-pro semi-pro player. There are many high grade referees that did not play as high as they ref now, and also lots of ex-high grade players who never get to ref as high as they played. We and other Societies (from what I see in South West Group) allocate resources if we have them to everyone, but those with the highest observed potential (and commitment) get perhaps a larger share as they climb the ranks - thagt is the basis on which all elite sport is based as resources are always finite.
Greg Collins
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Thank you. So why doesn't the RFU do a nice PR puff piece on these guys, especially the former group, in collaboration with Sky? It would make for fascinating TV and be a good recruitment tool.
It sets unrealistic expectations, imo, to see a regional refs development officer stood on the touchline to meet'n'greet'n'debrief an ex-pro player ELRA ref doing his first game. It also creates the impression that ex-pro players taking up the whistle do so outside the normal society structures.
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I guess you should be able to see clips of the game HERE.
Sorry, but no idea when though. I just remember seeing Total Rugby on the irb website.
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Jacko
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Well I'm one of the former and noone in their right mind would want to put my ugly mug on telly!
I don't imagine you'll read this before you go to your game Brian, but best of luck. I hope they buy you as much beer as I got after my first game (still have a soft spot for Magdalen College School!)
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I will suggest it to RFU - but Sky would have zero interest I suspect. Rugby is a minority sport and has limited ratings.
The BM Total Rugby set up tonight - floodlights at RP with Scottish is a publicity piece and well done to BM for doing it. So of course his trainer (Dobby) and Elite Ref GG are running touch for him - this is a one off special.