Brought into touch game over ? France V Scotland

[Shelflife]

In the French game, France kicked for touch with the clock in the red.

Scottish player caught the ball before it had crossed the plane of touch with his feet on the line, therefore he had made the ball dead.

Shouldnt that have been the end of the game ?

 

[didds]

From what the op wrote... Yes. Ball in touch.

What actually happened then? Or was the kick a PK?

 

[Shelflife]

Yeah it was a pen kick.

They played on and gave France the lineout, could have been a crucial decision as France were going for the try BP

 

[L'irlandais]

This incident ?
[LAWS]16:09 GMT
80+2 min France 20-10 Scotland:

Scotland get to within four metres of the France line, but French resistance is stout. We’re on Phase 20. We’ll have no more, as Nic Berry blows for a France penalty. Actually scrap that - France play the ball long down the field and don’t manage to put it into touch[/LAWS]

80+4 min France 20-10 Scotland: Fail to find it, because they weren’t looking for it - they want a bonus point try.

Source

 

[didds]

Yeah it was a pen kick.

They played on and gave France the lineout, could have been a crucial decision as France were going for the try BP

But if was a French PK France would have had the line out anyway?

if France wanted to kill the game they would have tapped then kicked out on the full which wouldn't have required seeking gain in ground.

So did France tap the ball the ball first or kick the PK for distance?


didds

 

[Shelflife]

Yes if it went straight in touch.

But the Scottish player brought it into touch so it should have been game over it the same way that if he caught it on the 5m line and walked off the pitch it would have ended the game.

 

[didds]

Good point - and thanks for your patience!

didds

 

[OB..]

Yes if it went straight in touch.

But the Scottish player brought it into touch so it should have been game over it the same way that if he caught it on the 5m line and walked off the pitch it would have ended the game.

[LAWS]5.7 A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless:
[...](c) A penalty is kicked directly to touch without the ball first being tapped and without the ball touching another player.

18.8 (c) Ball is kicked from a penalty:
[...]
A player who is in touch catches the ball irrespective of whether the ball has reached the touchline [/LAWS]

AIUI the ball is instantaneously in touch if caught by a player in touch.

 

[pedr]

I recall the replay showing the Scottish player had a foot on the ground in the field of play and a foot which had just been raised off the touch line when he caught the ball, a split second before he dragged the in play foot back onto the touchline. He was attempting to prevent the ball from going into touch, and thought he’d done so - he set off running.

The foot that seems in the air may have had its toe on the line when he caught it as the video isn’t entirely clear but my first view of it on replay was that it had been caught then put into touch by Scotland. A very tight one and probably not easy or possible to judge in real time.

 

[crossref]

it was tight --- but that hardly matters as it's unclear what the Law is ...

Is it a kick directly into touch ?

On the one hand the moment the scottish player catches it, it is in touch, so we might think yes.

On the other hand it the ball did touch another player, plus by Law that other player is judged to have made it dead.. so we might think no..


This was one of my 10 quiz quesitons wasn't it?

 

[Shelflife]

[LAWS]5.7 A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless:
[...](c) A penalty is kicked directly to touch without the ball first being tapped and without the ball touching another player.

18.8 (c) Ball is kicked from a penalty:
[...]
A player who is in touch catches the ball irrespective of whether the ball has reached the touchline [/LAWS]

AIUI the ball is instantaneously in touch if caught by a player in touch.

Cheers OB and I understand where youre coming from, but is that the same as directly into touch ?

Its taken into touch instantaneously by the Scottish player but it hasnt gone directly into touch from the pen. therefore it should be game over.

Its a big call to process in an instant for an AR not having a go at him. Just interested in the nuances of it.

 

[Zebra1922]

I view this in the same way as the ball going direct t touch with no interaction from a player. If it is from a penalty, we take the LO. In this instance, assuming the Scottish player was already in touch (i.e. had a foot on the touchline) when they caught the ball, the ball has gone direct to touch, albeit via a player interaction, therefore lineout France. If they caught the ball infield then went into touch, game over.

 

[crossref]

the ball has gone direct to touch, albeit via a player interaction,.

'direct' means without a player interaction ...

 

[ChuckieB]

[LAWS]5.7 A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless:
[...](c) A penalty is kicked directly to touch without the ball first being tapped and without the ball touching another player.

18.8 (c) Ball is kicked from a penalty:
[...]
A player who is in touch catches the ball irrespective of whether the ball has reached the touchline [/LAWS]

AIUI the ball is instantaneously in touch if caught by a player in touch.

......and under a penalty kick scenario it is then irrelevant as to who took it there.

 

[crossref]

......and under a penalty kick scenario it is then irrelevant as to who took it there.

Irrelevant in terms of who gets the throw
But in terms of whether time is up or not , the question is whether the kick went directly to touch

 

[Camquin]

And becuase the law book has been simplified for easier reading - it lacks precision.

 

[ChuckieB]

Irrelevant in terms of who gets the throw
But in terms of whether time is up or not , the question is whether the kick went directly to touch

...irrelevant in terms of, it comes under the matrix for penalties so time would not be up.

 

[GJ1968]

As a first season referee I just joined this forum to ask the question Shelflife asked as i was unsure what the answer was.

So thank you Shelflife foir asking and OB.. for the answer (after I got my Laws book out).

Cheers

 

[crossref]

...irrelevant in terms of, it comes under the matrix for penalties so time would not be up.

Explain?

- - - Updated - - -

As a first season referee I just joined this forum to ask the question Shelflife asked as i was unsure what the answer was.

So thank you Shelflife foir asking and OB.. for the answer (after I got my Laws book out).

Cheers

Hmm .. what was your question , and what have you concluded is the answer ?

 

[GJ1968]

"Hmm .. what was your question , and what have you concluded is the answer ?"

My question was whether game should have been over.

My thought as I watched was that Scottish player caught ball with foot in touch before ball had crossed the plane of touch so 18.1.b.ii would say that the "catcher is deemed to have taken the ball into touch". I.e not directly into touch from the penanlty, hence game ends.

What OB.. claritfied is that 18.8.c overrides that and the ball did go directly into touch from the penalty and hence the lineout should have been taken.

GJ