Can I Clarify The Offside Line.

Taff


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I suspect I may have got this wrong, so would like to get it clarified.

19.30 Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team not in possession:
a) Takes up a position with both feet behind the ball and close to the scrum but not in the space between the flanker and the number eight or
b) Permanently retires to a point on the offside line either at that team’s hindmost foot, or
c) Permanently retires at least five metres behind the hindmost foot.

At a scrum I know that the ball is the offside line for the Scrum Half not in possession, but given that he isn't allowed in the pocket "between the Flanker and No 8" does that effectively mean that the Flanker's feet is the furthest he can go? :chin:
 
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thepercy


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I suspect I may have got this wrong, so would like to get it clarified.

19.30 Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team not in possession:
a) Takes up a position with both feet behind the ball and close to the scrum but not in the space between the flanker and the number eight or
b) Permanently retires to a point on the offside line either at that team’s hindmost foot, or
c) Permanently retires at least five metres behind the hindmost foot.

At a scrum I know that the ball is the offside line for the Scrum Half not in possession, but given that he isn't allowed in the pocket "between the Flanker and No 8" does that effectively mean that the Flanker's feet is the furthest he can go? :chin:

No, I don't think that is true. As long as both feet remain behind the ball, and they don't move laterally into the pocket, they are not offside.
 

beckett50


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Yes. The offside line for the 'defending'#9 is the rear foot of the flanker.

There was a clarification/edict issued a few years back before the rewrite of the Law Book that didn't miss out/add any Laws :)
 

Decorily

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Yes. The offside line for the 'defending'#9 is the rear foot of the flanker.

There was a clarification/edict issued a few years back before the rewrite of the Law Book that didn't miss out/add any Laws :)

I don't think this is correct.
 

Taff


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No, I don't think that is true. As long as both feet remain behind the ball, and they don't move laterally into the pocket, they are not offside.
I don't think this is correct.
That's what I thought. My understanding was that the ball was the offside line - till the scrum was over, but a far more senior Ref pulled me up on it after my game last Saturday and told me it was definitely the Flanker's hindmost foot.

My logic though is that if WR wanted the offside line to the Flanker's hindmost foot, they would have said just that.
 
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Decorily

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That's what I thought. My understanding was that the ball was the offside line - till the scrum was over, but a far more senior Ref pulled me up on it after my game last Saturday and told me it was definitely the Flanker's hindmost foot.

My logic though is that if WR wanted the offside line to the Flanker's hindmost foot, they would have said just that.

Your Senior ref advisor may be confused about the 9 getting into the 'pocket ' between the flanker and the body of the Scrum.
The flankers foot is not the offside line.
 

didds

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I suspect I may have got this wrong, so would like to get it clarified.

19.30 Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team not in possession:
a) Takes up a position with both feet behind the ball and close to the scrum but not in the space between the flanker and the number eight or
b) Permanently retires to a point on the offside line either at that team’s hindmost foot, or
c) Permanently retires at least five metres behind the hindmost foot.

At a scrum I know that the ball is the offside line for the Scrum Half not in possession, but given that he isn't allowed in the pocket "between the Flanker and No 8" does that effectively mean that the Flanker's feet is the furthest he can go? :chin:

if the ball is at the 8s feet unless the flanker has exceptionally long legs the oppo 9 could stand at the flankers feet as long as he is "his side" of the ball.

if the flanker packs at all at an angle creating a gap between him and the 2nd row and #8, he cannot step into it.

didds
 

Taff


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Your Senior ref advisor may be confused about the 9 getting into the 'pocket ' between the flanker and the body of the Scrum. The flankers foot is not the offside line.
I did politely query it at the time, but he explained that given that the opposing SH has to stay within a metre of the scrum, it was impossible to go past the Flankers feet and stay within 1 metre of the scrum.
 
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didds

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I did query it at the time, but he explained that given that the opposing SH has to stay within a metre of the scrum, it was impossible to go past the Flankers feet and stay within 1 metre of the scrum.

He's barking.

that's clearly bollocks!

didds
 

Decorily

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I did politely query it at the time, but he explained that given that the opposing SH has to stay within a metre of the scrum, it was impossible to go past the Flankers feet and stay within 1 metre of the scrum.

Even if this were the case it is a different issue... the fact remains that the flankers feet /foot is not the offside line and it is inaccurate to state it as so.

As an aside isn't the flankers foot part of the scrum so in your 'Senior refs' scenario the 9 would only need to be within 1m of said foot to meet the criteria!
 

didds

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As an aside isn't the flankers foot part of the scrum so in your 'Senior refs' scenario the 9 would only need to be within 1m of said foot to meet the criteria!


exactly and obviously :)

didds
 

crossref


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I don't understand this Law -- where is this "space between the flanker and the number eight"

scrum.jpg
 

Decorily

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I don't understand this Law -- where is this "space between the flanker and the number eight"

scrum.jpg

I've been refereeing for years and can safely say I've never seen a scrum that looked as pretty as that image! !

Are you serious?
 

Rich_NL

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20200114_000646.jpg
Ball at red 8's feet.
Crosshatch area out of bounds.
Can yellow 9 go as far as B, or only A?
 

Dickie E


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B is the offside line

Agree

does everyone agree about the cross hatch?

kind of. The flanker will normally put his legs further back and angle his bum out to create the "no go" area.

msf..
 

CrouchTPEngage


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Well, for the sake of pedantry, is that B-line the central
line through the ball or the fore-most ( not hind-most) edge of the ball ?
A ball can be 30 cm long ! Is the opposing 9 allowed to have any part of his feet within that 30cm or behind that 30cm band ?

I am reminded of a very good ref's pre-match chat when he answered that "when do you consider the ball out, Sir?" question with something like "When the entire circumference of the ball is clear of the entire length of the hind-most foot. Or lifted".
 
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Decorily

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CrouchTPEngage;367009 Is the opposing 9 allowed to have any part of his feet [I said:
within [/I]that 30cm band ?

Not when I'm referring anyway!

I remember once being challenged by a 9 after a game as to why I was insisting he stay so far back from the OS line at the scrum.
I was unclear what he was referring to and he explained that I was telling him to stay 2 feet behind the all.

The penny dropped with me and I remembered saying to him " Two feet behind the ball 9" as he was coming up to pressure the other 9.

I now use the expression " Both feet"
 
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