Can the defending hooker kick the ball forward in a scrum?

Stu10


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I refereed an u15 match last week and the visiting team hooker won several scrums against the head by kicking the ball forward in the tunnel resulting in a rebound off an opposite front row player (i.e. the team putting into the scrum).

I'm aware that it is an offence to deliberately kick the ball out of the tunnel (laws 19.23 and 19.34.e), but in each instance the ball remained in the scrum. It didn't feel right, but I could not think of a reason to blow the whistle, and I can't find anything in the laws that says the hooker cannot do this.

While I'm here, do laws 19.23 and 19.34.e, and their associated sanctions, differ only based on first time offence versus repeated offences? At quick glance they both appear to address to same offence but have different sanctions.

23. A front-row player must not intentionally kick the ball out of the tunnel from the direction it was thrown. Sanction: Free-kick.

34. When there is no infringement, the referee will stop play and reset the scrum if:
e. The ball is unintentionally kicked out of the tunnel. Exception: If the ball is repeatedly kicked out, the referee must treat this as intentional. Sanction: Penalty.
 

chbg


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1. As long as he doesn't do it in 7s, it appears to be ok (19.20 & 19.21).

2. Inconsistency in the Laws - who'd believe it? 19.23 is not deemed to be a dangerous scrum act, thus FK not PK. Repeated intentional infringements become Foul Play (9.8, 9.9). 19.34e is presumably referring to treat as 'repeatedly intentional', rather than just 'once intentional'.
 

Stu10


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@chbg thanks for input!

The experience has certainly highlighted that we need a training session to tidy up our scrum feed/hook.
 

Decorily

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@chbg thanks for input!

The experience has certainly highlighted that we need a training session to tidy up our scrum feed/hook.
Just throw it in to the 2nd rows where the 8 can pick it up!
 

Stu10


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Just throw it in to the 2nd rows where the 8 can pick it up!
I'm trying to encourage kids to put the ball in straight, but I may be on a hiding to nothing!!!
 

Decorily

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I'm trying to encourage kids to put the ball in straight, but I may be on a hiding to nothing!!!
Possibly you should be encouraging them to do as most of their opponents do....push the boundaries out and stop doing it if and when the referee says so!!
 

Stu10


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Possibly you should be encouraging them to do as most of their opponents do....push the boundaries out and stop doing it if and when the referee says so!!
I'm normally the referee :ROFLMAO:

Am I being too idealistic by insisting on a straight feed? Tbh, our scrum halves push their luck more when I don't referee.
 

Decorily

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I don't know if you're being idealistic. ..

But you appear to be honourable! !

Don't set your standards to an unachievable level! !
 

Marc Wakeham


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I'm normally the referee :ROFLMAO:

Am I being too idealistic by insisting on a straight feed? Tbh, our scrum halves push their luck more when I don't referee.
Set your standards and stick to them funny how players manage to put the ball in straight after they get free kicked!
 
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didds

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Possibly you should be encouraging them to do as most of their opponents do....push the boundaries out and stop doing it if and when the referee says so!!
Or maybe you should coach to the laws because one day they will need to play as such. Hopefully.

Coaching to cheat doesn't improve/develop players. It merely creates players that cannot cope with reality when it arrives.
 

Decorily

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Or maybe you should coach to the laws because one day they will need to play as such. Hopefully.

Coaching to cheat doesn't improve/develop players. It merely creates players that cannot cope with reality when it arrives.
I never suggested cheating.
Laws are open to interpretation and I don't see anything wrong with pushing the boundaries to see where 'today's ref' stands with their interpretation.
 

Volun-selected


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I refereed an u15 match last week and the visiting team hooker won several scrums against the head by kicking the ball forward in the tunnel resulting in a rebound off an opposite front row player (i.e. the team putting into the scrum).
Trying to picture the timing on this - just to be clear, the hooker isn’t kicking until the ball has landed on the floor of the tunnel? Unless they strike before the ball lands on the floor I can’t think of any law against it.
 

didds

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I never suggested cheating.
Laws are open to interpretation and I don't see anything wrong with pushing the boundaries to see where 'today's ref' stands with their interpretation.
my entire point is that coaching to edge interpretations merely sets players up unable to deal with refs that do apply laws strictly as per the book. Thats it.

Its rather like teaching squads how to slip the ball back through a lineout maul, and roll it etc - but they cant actually throw and catch the ball to start with.

Get the fundamentals right and THEN work from there
 

Stu10


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Trying to picture the timing on this - just to be clear, the hooker isn’t kicking until the ball has landed on the floor of the tunnel? Unless they strike before the ball lands on the floor I can’t think of any law against it.
You've described it accurately... At that point we had a less experienced hooker on the pitch and he was slow to strike, leaving the ball in the tunnel longer than typical and giving opportunity to the opposing hooker.
 
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