[Line out] Can you take a QTI after KO into touch

Camquin

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KO into touch gives options.
Can the non-offending side indicate their option by taking the QTI?
 

Dickie E


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crossref


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Yes , and it is a really powerful option as can be taken anywhere between the goal line and halfway line
 

Marc Wakeham


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Yes. Why would yo unot allow it? You give them the options they have indicated what there option is before you have asked. No issue.
 

Christy


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My goodness .
Every body agrees , with yes to quick throw in .
Happy xmas all .

- - - Updated - - -

I also agree
 

Zebra1922


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Can we clarify is this Kick Off or Knock On? Answer is the same as options are allowed, but would or negate the comment about being available between halfway and the goal line.
 

Balones

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KO into touch gives options.
Can the non-offending side indicate their option by taking the QTI?

Are you thinking of a specific incident when it wasn't allowed?
 

Camquin

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I meant knock-on.
I was thinking of a specific incident where a national panel ref did not permit it, though not on camera.
 

Balones

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I meant knock-on.
I was thinking of a specific incident where a national panel ref did not permit it, though not on camera.

Was this in the Cambridge v Loughborough match yesterday, seeing as you are based in Cambridge? Can you remember a rough time for this?
 

crossref


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The Law Book isn't very well laid out
I think the sanction under 11.2 is supposed to apply to 11.1 as we
[LAWS]
KNOCK-ON


A knock-*on may occur anywhere in the playing area.

It is a knock-on when a player, in tackling or attempting to tackle an opponent, makes contact with the ball and the ball goes forward. Sanction: Scrum (if the ball goes into touch, the non-offending team may opt instead for a quick-throw or lineout)[/LAWS].
 

Dickie E


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I meant knock-on.
I was thinking of a specific incident where a national panel ref did not permit it, though not on camera.

Difficult to comment without having seen it. Possible that ball was touched after KO but before going into touch or touched by AR, etc. Did he give the options or just go with scrum?
 

Camquin

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Balones yes.
I seem to recall both sides tried it and both were told to come back for the set piece.
 

Taff


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As I understand it, if a LO is a possibility the QTI is ALWAYS an option unless it is ruled out by one of about 7 possible incidents eg ball touched, different ball etc.
 

Balones

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Balones yes.
I seem to recall both sides tried it and both were told to come back for the set piece.

I have managed to have a look at the home club video. (One of the privileges of NP PR status.) The sound on it is not present for some of it and some of the camerawork is a bit dodgy. However, the only two possible incidents of what you are mentioning are: –
1 - About midway through the first half the Loughborough winger knocks on but before the ball goes into touch the ball gets tangled up in his legs so does not go directly into touch. The ref is heard to say “Option. Okay no option then”, which seems to indicate that the AR had told him the situation.
2 – The second one, again about half way through the second half involves the Loughborough No8 making a break and offloading to the L No12 who flicks the ball back towards the winger. (No14) The L14 tries to gather the ball but he is tackled and he loses control of the ball and the ball goes backwards into touch. Cambridge try a quick throw in but the referee deems there to have been an initial knock-on in the attempt to gather by the L14 before it goes into touch. At this stage there is no sound on the video. I must admit that I cannot see this knock-on but then the action is on the far side of the pitch from the camera. Because the ball went backwards before going into touch obviously there is no option. Even if it had been deemed a ‘touch’ the quick throw in would not have been allowed because the C player took the quick throw in further up the pitch than the line of touch and the AR signalled this fact by raising his flag for a second time. The AR was seen to turn round and speak to a spectator and say something. This wasn’t you was it?

These are the only possible incidents that I can see in this particular match. All the others were lineouts from penalties or kicks. I hope this explains the situation to your satisfaction.
 

Camquin

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That would be it.
No I was in the stand - actually next to the Loughborough cameras - after having lunch with my mother and daughter.
Which meant I was not able to ask the AR for clarification, which I would have done had I been in my usual place on the touch line.
I thought he also called students back, but as i say it was a good lunch and it might have clouded my recall.

So are we saying only offer options if the ball goes directly into touch from the knock on / throw forward?
 

Balones

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That would be it.
No I was in the stand - actually next to the Loughborough cameras - after having lunch with my mother and daughter.
Which meant I was not able to ask the AR for clarification, which I would have done had I been in my usual place on the touch line.
I thought he also called students back, but as i say it was a good lunch and it might have clouded my recall.

So are we saying only offer options if the ball goes directly into touch from the knock on / throw forward?

Yes that is the case.
 

Dickie E


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So are we saying only offer options if the ball goes directly into touch from the knock on / throw forward?

We have to be careful here because the word 'directly' now has a special meaning ie 'directly' = on the full.

So if there is a knock on, then no other contact with any person before the ball goes into touch, then offer options.
 

Zebra1922


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We have to be careful here because the word 'directly' now has a special meaning ie 'directly' = on the full.

So if there is a knock on, then no other contact with any person before the ball goes into touch, then offer options.

where does it state directly means on the full (for this instance). If the ball bounces I always understood options were still available (but not if another player touched the ball).
 

Dickie E


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where does it state directly means on the full (for this instance).

Law 18 is littered with instances of the word 'directly' meaning on the full


If the ball bounces I always understood options were still available (but not if another player touched the ball).

Yes. Law 11.2 doesn't use the word 'directly':

[LAWS]2. It is a knock-on when a player, in tackling or attempting to tackle an opponent, makes contact with the ball and the ball goes forward. Sanction: Scrum (if the ball goes into touch, the non-offending team may opt instead for a quick-throw or lineout).[/LAWS]
 
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