Cannot change a decision after the end of a match

Camquin

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The NCA have issued a statement about the Luctonians v Rotherham match which clarifies the law with regard to when a referee can change a decision.

For those who have not been following, Rotherhan scored a try to level the scores right at the end of time. The conversion was initially signalled good, and the referee whistled to end the match, then the ARs apparently changed their mind, and the referee therefore followed suit - and the match card was submitted as a draw. After an appeal, the NCA ruled that no changes can be made after the referee signals the end of the match, so Rotherham have been awarded the win.

I note the NCA have not made any statement on the facts, this is whether the ball was over or under the bar.

So if you find yourself in the same situation as ref, make sure you get all the possible advice before you blow no-side. And if you are the Assistant, ensure Sir does not blow if you have any doubt.

 

Phil E


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Wonder what went wrong in the communication between the AR's for them both to raise their flags and then change their minds?
 

Balones

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Wonder what went wrong in the communication between the AR's for them both to raise their flags and then change their minds?
My understanding is, having spoken to the referee concerned and seen the video. - Basically after one AR (the one nearest the bar) put his flag up the other followed suit. (Further away.) The referee blew to confirm the conversion. But while this was happening the furthest away AR asked the first did he say ‘yes’. He said no. The furthest away thought the ball had gone under the bar. The nearest said he wasn’t totally sure. The ball had been hit hard, fast and low towards the bar. So a ‘check’ call came in from the ARs. After a discussion the ARs changed their minds and told the referee that the ball hadn’t gone over. The referee had not officially announced that the game was over. He was in the process of whistling for the end of the match but hadn’t verbally declared ‘full time’ when the ‘check’ call came in. The referee felt he could not overrule both the ARs since they were a lot closer and he couldn’t tell with absolute surety as to which side of the bar the ball had gone. After the match (perhaps not on the day) the ball was clearly seen to have gone over the bar on the video. The RFU judgement seems to suggest that it only needs the whistle to signify the end of the match and no verbal confirmation.
 

Balones

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I’d also like to say that the photograph shown in the link is not Luctonians v Rotherham!
 

Camquin

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Yes, it looks like Hull Ionians quarters to me, Hull's Red and While and Ionians Green and Blue. Do not ask about the history of the Hull clubs unless you have plenty of time or insomnia.
 

Phil E


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My understanding is, having spoken to the referee concerned and seen the video. - Basically after one AR (the one nearest the bar) put his flag up the other followed suit. (Further away.) The referee blew to confirm the conversion. But while this was happening the furthest away AR asked the first did he say ‘yes’. He said no. The furthest away thought the ball had gone under the bar. The nearest said he wasn’t totally sure. The ball had been hit hard, fast and low towards the bar. So a ‘check’ call came in from the ARs. After a discussion the ARs changed their minds and told the referee that the ball hadn’t gone over. The referee had not officially announced that the game was over. He was in the process of whistling for the end of the match but hadn’t verbally declared ‘full time’ when the ‘check’ call came in. The referee felt he could not overrule both the ARs since they were a lot closer and he couldn’t tell with absolute surety as to which side of the bar the ball had gone. After the match (perhaps not on the day) the ball was clearly seen to have gone over the bar on the video. The RFU judgement seems to suggest that it only needs the whistle to signify the end of the match and no verbal confirmation.

So it sounds like the first AR triggered it by raising his flag before both of them had called YES.
Compounded by the second raising his without checking first.
 

crossref


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the judgement was made a lot easier for the RFU given that that the first decision was actually the correct one.

In some respects the issue of no-side was a distraction....

.. Just in general, if two officially appointed ARs raise their flag, and ref blows and awards the kick, CAN the three of them subsequently confer and change their mind? I don't think they can or should.
 
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OB..


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Back in the 19th century a team could appeal to the RFU against a referee's decision. If the RFU upheld the appeal, the result of a match could be overturned.
 

crossref


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Back in the 19th century a team could appeal to the RFU against a referee's decision. If the RFU upheld the appeal, the result of a match could be overturned.
Isn't that exactly what happened in this case ?
 

crossref


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Did this go to the RFU for review?
Yes, it's in the original link

National League Rugby then referred the matter to the RFU who in return referred it to the RFU Laws Committee for a final decision. Their conclusions were
  • The game is over when the referee blows his whistle to indicate full-time
  • The referee cannot change a decision once the game is over
  • The score for the game should be that at the time the referee blew the final whistle i.e. 12-10 to Rotherham
The referee having decided that the score was 10-10
 
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crossref


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i am going to put this one out there again

setting aside the complication of blowing for full time, in the middle of the game, if two officially appointed ARs raise their flag, and ref blows and awards the kick, CAN the three of them subsequently confer and change their mind?
 

SimonSmith


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That isn't addressed in Law.

The referee can change his or her mind after consulting an AR. Can an AR change their mind? Lacuna.
 

crossref


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That isn't addressed in Law.

The referee can change his or her mind after consulting an AR. Can an AR change their mind? Lacuna.
seems to me that two flags up + a whistle ... that is the consultation, resulting in three way agreement. Can't see how they can change that.
 
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