Charge down puts oppo on side

[crossref]

Having recently become a Society member I've been bombarded with advice the past few weeks. One of those was to confidently sell your decision and move forward...

Bingo, yes. Either call confidently will work

I have long said this forum should be rearranged into
1.. grassroots reffing (what should you actually do)
2.. pro reffing (what should a TMO make of it)
3.. Laws naus (nerdy law discussion)

And this scenario is a good example of why it would be useful as I think the answers are

1.."touched everyone inside, play on "
2.. 10m law applies PK Bath
3.. actually we can't be totally sure

 

[SimonSmith]

I discussed this with an ex-international referee last night, and his opinion was that the charge down is included in the laws to mitigate a knock on being awarded, therefore a valid charge down results in the ball going forward off the player to the ground (or another player), the same as a knock-on.

Therefore the OP example is offside.

However, we agreed this is rarely/never refereed like this and the videos in the WR website for law 10 compound the issue. The group also felt that law 10.4.c was not generally understood in is entirely.

I thinkw e can all agree that the opinions of ex Elite referees is not necessarily the gold standard.

I call Nigel Owens and Tony Spreadbury to the stand....

 

[Dickie E]

Based on the language throughout law 10 I feel there is a difference between played and charged down, but I don't know what it is.

Imagine that, after the contact, the ball had gone forward. If you'd blow for a knock-on, that'd be 'played'. If you wouldn't blow for a knock-on, that'd be 'charged down'

 

[Stu10]

I thinkw e can all agree that the opinions of ex Elite referees is not necessarily the gold standard.

I call Nigel Owens and Tony Spreadbury to the stand....

I was merely playing the role of messenger and sharing here
I'm honestly still not 100% on this one.

 

[crossref]

Imagine that, after the contact, the ball had gone forward. If you'd blow for a knock-on, that'd be 'played'. If you wouldn't blow for a knock-on, that'd be 'charged down'

So in the OP scenario you wouldn't blow for a knock on , so it wasn't a charge down, so it was touched in flight and the 10m rule applies. pK to bath

(Not saying this is the wrong answer ! It's my #20)

 

[Dickie E]

So in the OP scenario you wouldn't blow for a knock on , so it wasn't a charge down, so it was touched in flight and the 10m rule applies. pK to bath

(Not saying this is the wrong answer ! It's my #20)

No. What I am saying is that, if the ball had gone forward after the OP contact, I would have considered the event a charge down. So, eventhough it hasn't gone forward, the event itself remains a charge down. IMO

 

[number11]

did the player knock it forward? calling it a charge down rather than a KO souns generous if he was 15m from kicker ?
(but if communicated strongly I am sure the players would go with you)

The ball went forward. But it happened in a split second (ok, maybe more like 10m...) and my call was accepted by all. It was a youth game and they were happy to get on with it, didn't even hear complaints from the touchline.

 

[crossref]

my attention has been drawn to this clarification from 2011

which contains a defintion of a charge down.... I wonder if it still applies.

1. The act of a charge down is one where an opposition player not in possession of the ball approaches a kicker at close quarters and makes an attempt to block the kick. In such circumstances players in front of the kicker who are within 10 metres of the kick are not liable to penalty wherever the ball lands.

Law Clarifications | World Rugby Laws

Clarifications in law for the game of rugby union, as requested by unions or individuals.

www.world.rugby

 

[Drift]

yes, but what's the definition of a charge down?

The way I’ve always interpreted it was if the ball is travelling upwards and gets touched then it’s a charge down.

 

[crossref]

The way I’ve always interpreted it was if the ball is travelling upwards and gets touched then it’s a charge down.

Not in the definition in the clarification.

Can you charge down with your head, body, foot ? Or only arms?
Does the ball have to go down? And/0r go forwards?

 

[didds]

I have a sense of deja vu

 

[Stu10]

my attention has been drawn to this clarification from 2011

which contains a defintion of a charge down.... I wonder if it still applies.

Law Clarifications | World Rugby Laws

Clarifications in law for the game of rugby union, as requested by unions or individuals.

www.world.rugby

Nice find! This is the first I've seen that constitutes a definition of a charge down:

The act of a charge down is one where an opposition player not in possession of the ball approaches a kicker at close quarters and makes an attempt to block the kick.

So, to complete the circle of this discussion, the Bath player did approach the kicker at close quarters and made an attempt to block the kick, therefore it was a charge down, thus the Leicester player that subsequently caught the kick was not offside and the try was good.

 

[crossref]

Nice find! This is the first I've seen that constitutes a definition of a charge down:

The act of a charge down is one where an opposition player not in possession of the ball approaches a kicker at close quarters and makes an attempt to block the kick.

So, to complete the circle of this discussion, the Bath player did approach the kicker at close quarters and made an attempt to block the kick, therefore it was a charge down, thus the Leicester player that subsequently caught the kick was not offside and the try was good.

Yeees... But .. what then would be a good example then of a player touching or playing the ball, which is NOT a charge down

 

[didds]

Maybe its like Schroedinger's cat?

its both a charge down AND a player touching or playing the ball AT THE SAME TIME!!

 

[didds]

meanwhile a player touching or playing the ball, which is NOT a charge down, would presumably be where an opposition player not in possession of the ball approaches a kicker at close quarters and does not make an attempt to block the kick.

 

[Stu10]

Yeees... But .. what then would be a good example then of a player touching or playing the ball, which is NOT a charge down

 

[Harry]

Simulation

 

[didds]

but Barnes isn't a player... ;-)

 

[Stu10]

but Barnes isn't a player... ;-)

I know, but I found it funny

However, you can imagine the same situation but the ball hitting a player from the opposition team. (I just couldn't find an example on YouTube.)

 

[crossref]

I know, but I found it funny

However, you can imagine the same situation but the ball hitting a player from the opposition team. (I just couldn't find an example on YouTube.)

It's interesting to apply it to Law 10
Because it's not intentional it wouldn't put anyone onside , and because it's not a charge down the 10m law would apply.