Charge down, teammate in front picks up ball and runs

OB..


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
22,963
Post Likes
1,824
In practice a charge-down is a close range attempt to block a kick when there is no realistic possibility of catching it and no attempt to do so. The ball goes forward off the blocker's hands and does not constitute a knock-on.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
19,861
Post Likes
2,291
In practice a charge-down is a close range attempt to block a kick when there is no realistic possibility of catching it and no attempt to do so. The ball goes forward off the blocker's hands and does not constitute a knock-on.
but when considering the 10m Rule, we are considering cases where the ball is merely deflected, and basically continues on it's way - meaning that the 10m rule doesn't apply. So it's not necessary for the ball to go forward off the charger to be a 'charge down'

Nor is it necessarily the blocker's hands. You can charge down with the body or head. Above we discuss whether you can chargedown with your foot (or is that just a kick)
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
10,859
Post Likes
1,237
is a charge down if the kicker kicks the ball into an opponent (presumably accidentally!) with no voluntary action by the opponent?

for an extreme example if the opponent has their back to the kicker ?
 

Volun-selected


Referees in America
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
148
Post Likes
49
Location
United States
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
is a charge down if the kicker kicks the ball into an opponent (presumably accidentally!) with no voluntary action by the opponent?

for an extreme example if the opponent has their back to the kicker ?
If it just deflects then to me that’s not a charge down. Since it usually happens almost instantly in a game I don’t have time to overthink (which is a good thing) and for me a charge down has to be at least a semi-deliberate action by the charger and somewhere toward the upper part of their body. Stick out a leg - that’s a kick. Try and turn away and ball hits you, not a charge down. Ball kicked toward your face and you instinctively throw arms up and hit the ball forward - I’ll treat that as a charge down (and no, you haven’t just put the team mate in front of you onside…)

As interpretations go it’s a bit rough and ready but works for me in the lower leagues without TMO or ARs
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
19,861
Post Likes
2,291
If it just deflects then to me that’s not a charge down. Since it usually happens almost instantly in a game I don’t have time to overthink (which is a good thing) and for me a charge down has to be at least a semi-deliberate action by the charger and somewhere toward the upper part of their body. Stick out a leg - that’s a kick. Try and turn away and ball hits you, not a charge down. Ball kicked toward your face and you instinctively throw arms up and hit the ball forward - I’ll treat that as a charge down (and no, you haven’t just put the team mate in front of you onside…)

As interpretations go it’s a bit rough and ready but works for me in the lower leagues without TMO or ARs
Give me a scenario relating to the 10m Rule
(And a charge down, never puts the team mates in front of you onside, indeed the reverse, it puts the team mates in front of you offside )
 
Last edited:

Stu10

Rugby Club Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
224
Post Likes
79
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
so you're saying that there is nothing the blue player can do to prevent a penalty? Not even run away from the red player?
In the situation offered, the grubber kick started in blue's half (attempted 50:22), I assume red winger is approximately on his own 22 metre, with blue defender always in front of the kicker and standing within 5m of red winger at the time he gathers the grubber kick... there are some gaps in the story here, but I assume either (a) blue defender was in-front of the kicker and continued to move forward to close down the red wing as he gathers the kick, or (b) blue defender was already 20 yards offside and just stayed next to red winger when the kick was made... he should have been doing everything to get back onside before the time that red gathers the kick, so how is he only 5m away... unless there is a scenario c, there is no way blue defender is preventing a penalty, IMHO.

We are trying to visualise what this situation looks like using a few provided details. I'm sure that we would both call this correctly IRL.
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
13,482
Post Likes
1,688
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
In the situation offered, the grubber kick started in blue's half (attempted 50:22), I assume red winger is approximately on his own 22 metre, with blue defender always in front of the kicker and standing within 5m of red winger at the time he gathers the grubber kick... there are some gaps in the story here, but I assume either (a) blue defender was in-front of the kicker and continued to move forward to close down the red wing as he gathers the kick, or (b) blue defender was already 20 yards offside and just stayed next to red winger when the kick was made... he should have been doing everything to get back onside before the time that red gathers the kick, so how is he only 5m away... unless there is a scenario c, there is no way blue defender is preventing a penalty, IMHO.

We are trying to visualise what this situation looks like using a few provided details. I'm sure that we would both call this correctly IRL.
OK. Here's the question:
Does the 10 metre law apply at all in the case of a grubber kick given that the ball initially lands 1 metre in front of the kicker? 10 metre law talks about player waiting to catch ball, etc which surely doesn't apply for a grubber kick ... or does it?
 

chbg


Referees in England
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
1,319
Solutions
1
Post Likes
313
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
OK. Here's the question:
Does the 10 metre law apply at all in the case of a grubber kick given that the ball initially lands 1 metre in front of the kicker? 10 metre law talks about player waiting to catch ball, etc which surely doesn't apply for a grubber kick ... or does it?
He's still offside under virtually every other aspect of Law 10, so may not interfere with play or move towards the ball.

Did not the Law at one stage state "10m from a player waiting to play the ball"?
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
10,859
Post Likes
1,237
OK. Here's the question:
Does the 10 metre law apply at all in the case of a grubber kick given that the ball initially lands 1 metre in front of the kicker? 10 metre law talks about player waiting to catch ball, etc which surely doesn't apply for a grubber kick ... or does it?
all that means is the grubber kick lands eg 1m in fornt of the kicker. so there is your point of landing which the oppo failed to catch.

CF a long kick that bounces 30m downfield and rolls.


How else can you interpret it ?
 

Volun-selected


Referees in America
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
148
Post Likes
49
Location
United States
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
OK. Here's the question:
Does the 10 metre law apply at all in the case of a grubber kick given that the ball initially lands 1 metre in front of the kicker? 10 metre law talks about player waiting to catch ball, etc which surely doesn't apply for a grubber kick ... or does it?
The wording seems to be the 10m applies where it’s caught or where it lands so yes even for a grubber and that’s at the first bounce I guess.

But in most cases I can think of that I’ve seen the grubber is usually stabbed through by the ball carrier to avoid a tackle and they’re either attacking and ahead of the pack so all their team are chasing and so onside or deep and panicking in which case their team are already scrambling back to get onside anyway.
 
Top