Charge down through in goal

Zebra1922


Referees in Scotland
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
683
Post Likes
199
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
Need a consult with the RugbyRef Hive Mind.

What is the decision if there is a charge down from a kick inside the 22, and the ball goes through the in goal area? And can you give a law reference to back the decision?

I've been through the law book but can't find this specific scenario covered. I'm thinking it's a 22 DO in the same way a kick by attackers through the in goal from inside the 22 would result in a 22 DO.
 

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
15,470
Post Likes
1,771
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
Who put the ball into in-goal?
The attacker who made the charge down did.

Then the ball goes dead, doesn't matter how.

So its a 22 drop out.

I can't give you a law reference for that as it disappeared in the rewrite :rolleyes:
 

Stu10

Rugby Club Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
174
Post Likes
50
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
I also can't find specific reference in the Laws, but considering laws 21.4 and 21.11.a... the ball was put in-goal by and attacker and was made dead, therefore a 22-metre drop-out is awarded to the defending team.

21.11.b does not apply because the ball was not kicked by an attacker, therefore scrum restart is not an option.

Also worth adding that if the ball was grounded in-goal by a defender then a 22 DO should be awarded, because a charge down is not listed in the scenarios that lead to a GLD.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
19,700
Post Likes
2,239
. I'm thinking it's a 22 DO in the same way a kick by attackers through the in goal from inside the 22 would result in a 22 DO.
it is a 22DO - but it's NOT the same as a kick, which results in options (22DO or a scrum)
 

Zebra1922


Referees in Scotland
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
683
Post Likes
199
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
Thanks all. It’s a bit frustrating that with the ‘simplificaiton’ of the law book and the adoption of the GLDO, some scenarios aren’t covered in the law book so you either need to infer from other laws, or have knowledge or old law books (which officially no longer apply).
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
19,700
Post Likes
2,239
Thanks all. It’s a bit frustrating that with the ‘simplificaiton’ of the law book and the adoption of the GLDO, some scenarios aren’t covered in the law book so you either need to infer from other laws, or have knowledge or old law books (which officially no longer apply).
it is indeed - it's astonsihing that, after 4 years, this scenario STILL isn't covered in the book
 

Stu10

Rugby Club Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
174
Post Likes
50
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
I have said many times that rugby experience is required to be a good ref, and simply learning the law book is not enough because there are gaps in the laws and interpretation is often required.
 

Zebra1922


Referees in Scotland
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
683
Post Likes
199
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
I have said many times that rugby experience is required to be a good ref, and simply learning the law book is not enough because there are gaps in the laws and interpretation is often required.
I’m fine for a bit of interpretation, but something like this which has been complicated by the GLDO trial needs better clarity in laws otherwise your interpretation may be very different to mine.
 

Stu10

Rugby Club Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
174
Post Likes
50
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
I’m fine for a bit of interpretation, but something like this which has been complicated by the GLDO trial needs better clarity in laws otherwise your interpretation may be very different to mine.
Just to clarify, I was making a general comment... it was not directed at you :)
It was more intended to highlight the gaps in the law book.
 

Zebra1922


Referees in Scotland
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
683
Post Likes
199
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
Just to clarify, I was making a general comment... it was not directed at you :)
It was more intended to highlight the gaps in the law book.
I got that, all good.
 

Drift


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
1,827
Post Likes
98
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
I’m fine for a bit of interpretation, but something like this which has been complicated by the GLDO trial needs better clarity in laws otherwise your interpretation may be very different to mine.
There are only 3 instances of GLDO, anything else is the same as it's always been.
1. Attacker held up in in-goal.
2. Grounded from a kick into in-goal.
3. A knock on in in-goal.
 

Jarrod Burton


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
609
Post Likes
132
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
There are only 3 instances of GLDO, anything else is the same as it's always been.
1. Attacker held up in in-goal.
2. Grounded from a kick into in-goal.
3. A knock on in in-goal.
I've had a question from another ref outside of the forum as its not explicitly outlined in the laws - defenders kick is charged down from the field and goes TIG. My opinion is 22DO as the attacker took the ball into the in-goal and it was made dead. They feel it should be considered like a defending kick that is blown back into the defenders in-goal and made dead = 5m attacking scrum. I disagree with this as a charge down comes off the oppo rather than the kicker. Have you had any feedback on this from the higherups?
 

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
15,470
Post Likes
1,771
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
I've had a question from another ref outside of the forum as its not explicitly outlined in the laws - defenders kick is charged down from the field and goes TIG. My opinion is 22DO as the attacker took the ball into the in-goal and it was made dead. They feel it should be considered like a defending kick that is blown back into the defenders in-goal and made dead = 5m attacking scrum. I disagree with this as a charge down comes off the oppo rather than the kicker. Have you had any feedback on this from the higherups?

Who put the ball into in-goal. Go from there.

Attackers put it in (not from a kick) and it was made dead (doesn't matter how).
Result is a 22 DO.
 

Drift


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
1,827
Post Likes
98
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
I've had a question from another ref outside of the forum as its not explicitly outlined in the laws - defenders kick is charged down from the field and goes TIG. My opinion is 22DO as the attacker took the ball into the in-goal and it was made dead. They feel it should be considered like a defending kick that is blown back into the defenders in-goal and made dead = 5m attacking scrum. I disagree with this as a charge down comes off the oppo rather than the kicker. Have you had any feedback on this from the higherups?
Where was the kick made from and charged down from?

- passed back into in-goal and charged down in in-goal - 5m scrum
- passed back into in-goal but charged down in the field of play - 22
- kicked from in the field of play and charged down then goes dead - 22
- kicked from in the field of play and charged down into in-goal and then grounded by the defending side - 22 (I am including this because it happened to me for the first time on Saturday)
 

Jarrod Burton


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
609
Post Likes
132
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
Where was the kick made from and charged down from?

- passed back into in-goal and charged down in in-goal - 5m scrum
- passed back into in-goal but charged down in the field of play - 22
- kicked from in the field of play and charged down then goes dead - 22
- kicked from in the field of play and charged down into in-goal and then grounded by the defending side - 22 (I am including this because it happened to me for the first time on Saturday)
Option 3 is the one I'm asking about. Thanks Drift.
 

chbg


Referees in England
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
1,292
Solutions
1
Post Likes
290
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
There are only 3 instances of GLDO, anything else is the same as it's always been.
1. Attacker held up in in-goal.
2. Grounded from a kick into in-goal.
3. A knock on in in-goal.

Point 2 should be: "Made dead in any way by defence from an attacker's kick into in-goal."
 
Top