Charity Game with scrums and new laws!

[thepercy]

The problem for me if you call "Taken Back" is that you are giving a possible advantage of avoiding an error to the defending team -to the disadvantage of the attacking team.

Doesn't sit well with attacking players, doesn't sit well with me. By calling it throughout the game for consistency still doesn't make it right.

Do you say nothing if the ball is passed or carried into the 22 or In-Goal?

You never say, Roll Away, or No Hands?

Do you help manage players that are Offside, or do you just wait for it to become material and then blow the PK?

What about warning about Repeat Infringements?

I'm not sure keeping information secret and making the players guess is the best approach to rugby refereeing.

 

[OB..]

I agree with thepercy.

 

[Phil E]

Staffordshire Society advice is to call it in the same way we do for the 22m line.

 

[SimonSmith]

If we had the like button, I'd have been using it.

Communicate for purpose. I can see both sides appreciating knowing which side of the line a ball was.

 

[Phil E]

For info on the game....
We had no 50/22s
We had one GL DO when the ball was kicked into in goal and dotted down by a defender.
No latching

We had one interesting moment which I might have done better on, or maybe not.

"Attackers kicked ahead from inside the opposition 22, and the ball went right through in-goal and over the dead ball line.
I blew the whistle and shouted options to the defending captain (scrum or 22DO) as I always have done.
Attackers all ran to the 5m line thinking it was a GL DO.
Defenders ran to the 22, kicked it over the 22, picked it up and ran the length of the field for a try."

Cue complaint from the Attacking Captain that I hadn't told them it went over the dead ball line so how were they to know it was a 22?

Would you have played on or stopped the game for a training session on when its a GL DO and when its a 22DO?

 

[thepercy]

For info on the game....
We had no 50/22s
We had one GL DO when the ball was kicked into in goal and dotted down by a defender.
No latching

We had one interesting moment which I might have done better on, or maybe not.

"Attackers kicked ahead from inside the opposition 22, and the ball went right through in-goal and over the dead ball line.
I blew the whistle and shouted options to the defending captain (scrum or 22DO) as I always have done.
Attackers all ran to the 5m line thinking it was a GL DO.
Defenders ran to the 22, kicked it over the 22, picked it up and ran the length of the field for a try."

Cue complaint from the Attacking Captain that I hadn't told them it went over the dead ball line so how were they to know it was a 22?

Would you have played on or stopped the game for a training session on when its a GL DO and when its a 22DO?

Once the 22DO Option was chosen, did you do the 22DO signal and point to the 22M line?

 

[didds]

Cue complaint from the Attacking Captain that I hadn't told them it went over the dead ball line so how were they to know it was a 22?

Would you have played on or stopped the game for a training session on when its a GL DO and when its a 22DO?

I think that is a reasonable point with various caveats...

eg

* did the ball end up in the car park 50m away and was obviously over the DBL
* did you call "22M drop out" loudly and clearly well before the defnders made the 22 d/o (ie see the point made in the above post)?


I accept that in reality the conceding skipper was just trying to be difficult, but depending on the circumstances maybe with some reason

 

[crossref]

We had one interesting moment which I might have done better on, or maybe not.

"Attackers kicked ahead from inside the opposition 22, and the ball went right through in-goal and over the dead ball line.
I blew the whistle and shouted options to the defending captain (scrum or 22DO) as I always have done.
Attackers all ran to the 5m line thinking it was a GL DO.
Defenders ran to the 22, kicked it over the 22, picked it up and ran the length of the field for a try."

Cue complaint from the Attacking Captain that I hadn't told them it went over the dead ball line so how were they to know it was a 22?

Would you have played on or stopped the game for a training session on when its a GL DO and when its a 22DO?

I think it's play on .

caveat - if as a ref you felt you inadvertently contributed to the confusion, with an unclear signal, or yourself heading toward the 5m line or suchlike, then call it back.

I think after the game they'd all smile about that.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

CTrainor, in that case why tell them if they have carried back into the 22? Let them kick it out on the full and give the throw on the line.
Surely the communication is there to ensure everyone one - incuding you - knows what you are thinking.

After the points raised, I've changed my mind, I will call it, if I remember

 

[Dickie E]

Would you have played on or stopped the game for a training session on when its a GL DO and when its a 22DO?

given it was the teams' first experience of the new stuff, I would not have played on. Did the defenders verbally nominate their option or was the run to the 22 sufficient?

 

[Flish]

I think, but depends on your judgement of the level of confusion at the time, I would pull it back and go again, it's pre-season and this is all new (for all of us) so probably better that everyone understands and learns than feels frustrated or confused.

 

[Phil E]

I shouted Options and ran to the place the scrum would have been.
Some defenders came with me waited for the scrum, some ran to the 5m line.
They then all just stood there and watched almost the entire defending team go to the 22m line....followed by me legging it to the centre of the 22.
One of the defenders shouted 22 Sir.

On reflection I think I should have slowed the game down on some pretext (solely because of the confusion over the kind of dropout), but at the time I just thought this is quick thinking by the defenders and they deserve the try, attackers should have been more aware.

Had this been last season I would have absolutely played on.
If this happens in a league game I would absolutely play on.

 

[Arabcheif]

If I'm understanding the new Law.... Options would only come into play if the ball goes over the DBL (in this scenario). If it was touched down we'd have a GL Drop-out. Therefore the communication of options states that the ball went over the DBL. Am I right?

 

[Phil E]

If I'm understanding the new Law.... Options would only come into play if the ball goes over the DBL (in this scenario). If it was touched down we'd have a GL Drop-out. Therefore the communication of options states that the ball went over the DBL. Am I right?

That sounds correct to me.

 

[Dickie E]

If ball is dotted down in goal from a kick off, what are options?

 

[buff]

12.9 gives the receiving team the rekick/scrum option. 12.12b makes it clear what is exempted from the GLDK

An attacking kick, other than a kick-off, restart kick following a score, drop goal, drop-out or penalty attempt, is grounded or made dead in in-goal by the defending team.

What happens under 12.9 or 12.18 (unlikely unless you are playing in a hurricane) if the ball is not grounded without delay? According to law 13 in the 2017 book, play carries on in such a case. There is nothing in the new book

 

[crossref]

If ball is dotted down in goal from a kick off, what are options?

If they dot down without delay, then options of scrum or kick again

If they delay and then dot down .. the Law book doesn't say. (what a mess they have made of it )

I would give a 22mDO

 

[Camquin]

Am I right in thinking that as with a 22, the goal line drop out can be taken anywhere across the pitch?

 

[Flish]

Am I right in thinking that as with a 22, the goal line drop out can be taken anywhere across the pitch?

That is my understanding, yes

 

[Balones]

If ball is dotted down in goal from a kick off, what are options?

Are you really asking what happens when the non-offending side opts for the scrum on the half-way line? Can you kick the ball under 50/22 if you win the ball? Is the centre of the scrum in your half or not? Is winning the ball carrying it back?

Is kicking the ball back into your half okay? The law only mentions passing or carrying.