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crossref


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fair enough , so why not take a minute to talk amongst yourselves then?
 

Taff


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fair enough , so why not take a minute to talk amongst yourselves then?
I assume Mods have to work as well. :biggrin:

Plus, Mods may be on different continents, so my guess is that "taking a minute" to discuss anything isn't as easy as it sounds given the time differences.
 

crossref


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Taff
1 it's an expression
2 it's been over a day since the offending post .a post which one mod called disgusting, and another disliked, and as a result a third mod closed the thread. They have had plenty of opportunities to act
3 it was a post that would clearly earn a RC and a suspension if uttered on pitch
4 it's clearly in contravention to the values of rugby


And yet the post is still there . I don't understand why rugbyrefs.com is perfectly happy to publish comments like that.
It's absolutely not what this site should be standing for. I feel ashamed by it

If that comment was on a club website the CB would absolutely take action and the club would be sanctioned. I dont understand what this site stands for that the mods leave it there e

Time difference my foot. They have decided it's ok. But it's not
 
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menace


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I think you make a very good point crossref.

But equally I'm ok with free speach. I found it unpalatable but didnt think it needed to be a cause to close the thread. I try not get offended but if I do I simply think that it reflects more on the person saying it...not those reading it.

But it is curious that it was too bad to leave open but not bad enough to just deleted the posts that crossed the line?
 

crossref


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when refereeing, if something happens that you know many players will perceive as foul play, but you are going to play on, then we all know that good game management is to acknowledge the incident and say something

- at the time 'Play on! Seen it, nothing in that!'
- and then afterward to the captain a brief word to explain 'I saw it - completely understand the appeals, but to me they both had a realistic chance to catch it, and they collided, rugby incident, not foul play
.. or whatever.

This settles the players and builds confidence in you (even if they don't agree)


On the other hand, when a poor referee says nothing at all and, through gritted teeth, eyes ahead, simply refuses to acknowledge any thing took place, and says nothing to the captains, then this is not good management. The players are left guesssing and lose confidence.
 

Marc Wakeham


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Surely, from reading this thread, there is a reason why a thread needs "dealing with" If there is something "unacceptable" in it. ust because people are bored with it is a reason to avoid not close.

If a thread bacome offensive / libelous or whatever then it either needs DELETING or editing. This surely needs to be done promptly to remove the offence.

Now, as has been said there is an issue with time differences and or availability of mods able to "discuss" issues.

So what is the solution?

I suggest a "quarantine" area. This would be a thead / sub forum where only mods can read threads. Any Mods could "quarantine a thread they are not happy with and the other mods would be alerted. They could then look at the "offensive" thread and agree tho either Delete the thread completely or edit it and returning to the original forum or "overrule" the originals mods "censorship" action.

This way we don't leave offensive material on public display.

Is this possible?
 

crossref


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FFS , when someone makes a comment like that .. just delete it
 

Marc Wakeham


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Some times it get quoted and the deleting can become complex.
 

menace


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The added complexity is everyone has a different "offensive meter" - so youll be relying on mods meter as the moral compass to censor the site. Which is fine by me..but presumably guidance about what will be censored will need to be provided?
 

Marc Wakeham


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menace;351889[B said:
]The added complexity is everyone has a different "offensive meter" - so youll be relying on mods meter as the moral compass to censor the site. [/B]Which is fine by me..but presumably guidance about what will be censored will need to be provided?

That why I suggest a "quarantine" forum. One mod might feel something to be OTT but the rest feel it not to be. This way it would be moved whist a consensus view was arrived at.
 

Ian_Cook


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Frankly, I don't see this as an issue. If RRF were to adopt a position that moderators cannot post in closed threads, then we would be a rarity among internet forums. Besides, all it would do is make the moderator have to go through the process of unlocking, posting and locking it again - what a waste of time that would be.

However, lets recognise what this is really about, the closing of the thread in the first place (and I think we all know which thread it was and why it was closed).

I chose to take no part in the staff discussion as regards to the thread that was closed, nonetheless, I agree with the reasons why it was done. Accusing referees at any level of personal bias is tantamount to an accusation of cheating, and it has no place on this forum.

If it is a low level referee you suspect, make a formal complaint to his Society/Association. If it is an elite level referee you want to accuse of cheating, there's a place of that.... its called Planet Rugby.
 

L'irlandais

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The original thread behind this discussion has been deleted.
Since this post repeated items from the original thread it has also been deleted.

MOD
 
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Ian_Cook


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Personal bias?
Did you take the time to read the linked articles? All human beings are subject to subconscious bias.
SS position that Wayne Barnes is above this is ridiculous. It is equivalent to saying WB is not subject to the same faults and failings we all have. Putting referees on a pedestal and saying they can do no wrong is not what Robbie Burns’ “Better officials, better game” is about.

This is not what I'm saying, and you know it. You're building a strawman.

This forum is not the place to accuse officials of cheating... end of story! (yes, you can consider this an informal warning!)
 

crossref


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The added complexity is everyone has a different "offensive meter" - so youll be relying on mods meter as the moral compass to censor the site. Which is fine by me..but presumably guidance about what will be censored will need to be provided?

Yes, that's what mods are for (like referees).
 

crossref


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Frankly, I don't see this as an issue. If RRF were to adopt a position that moderators cannot post in closed threads, then we would be a rarity among internet forums. Besides, all it would do is make the moderator have to go through the process of unlocking, posting and locking it again - what a waste of time that would be.

However, lets recognise what this is really about, the closing of the thread in the first place (and I think we all know which thread it was and why it was closed).

I chose to take no part in the staff discussion as regards to the thread that was closed, nonetheless, I agree with the reasons why it was done. Accusing referees at any level of personal bias is tantamount to an accusation of cheating, and it has no place on this forum.

If it is a low level referee you suspect, make a formal complaint to his Society/Association. If it is an elite level referee you want to accuse of cheating, there's a place of that.... its called Planet Rugby.


Ian you are quite right there is more than one issue here

1 - Was it right to close the thread ?

I don't think so, I think plenty of people still has something to say (including two mods). But hey, y'all closed it, so fine we can live with that

2 - Having closed the thread is it OK for mods to carry on the discussion

Clearly not. If the thread needs closing then others mods shouldn't be still posting on it hours later

3 - Should the offensive post on the thread be deleted?

Yes, it should be.

4 - Should the mods say something about the post, the standards they apply, and the reasons for deleting/not deleting that post ?

That would be good
 
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SimonSmith


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Thread has been killed after Mod conversation.

It's one thing to pick a referee up on a technical issue or application of management standard (conversation re JP and Farrell's shoulder, for example) and another to accuse them of cheating. And for the sake of clarity: suggesting an Elite referee needs time on the psychiatrist's couch for how he deals with Irish and Welsh teams isn't a discussion about subconscious bias but an allegation of cheating.

As a rule of thumb: if it were to be offensive said to a referee in the clubhouse, or during a match, it has no place here.
 

crossref


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Well, it took a long time, but right decision in the end
 
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