[In-goal] Competing for the ball on the ground - knee to head

[HappyScrummie]

Hi all,

Wondered if I could get your thoughts on a scenario.

Yellow are near white's try line and grubber kick through. White fullback slides in, gathers the ball, slides over the try line and dots the ball down.

At the same time, yellow winger also slides in attempting to ground the ball, but because of the way the two players slide in he ends up hitting the white full back in the face with his knee.

He doesn't end up competing for the ball (the full back turned as he slid so the ball ended up on the other side of his body, yellow has no chance of getting a hand to it).

Card clearly needed here in my view - but does it have to be red by a default? In my view the winger was making a genuine attempt to compete for the ball - rather than deliberately injure his opponent - but got it wrong.

I gave a yellow but am now beginning to think it should have been red as it was reckless. Is there any guidance in law which says 'accidental is irrelevant'? White's coach marched over at the end of the match and said as much. Would have been nice to have an answer!

Guidance appreciated!

 

[crossref]

I think this is one of those where you have to be there and see it.
After your first two paragraphs I was thinking 'rugby accident , play on' but obviously you saw something you thought reckless , so fair enough ..


Not necessarily important , but sometimes a good yardstick .. what did the players generally think of your call ?

 

[ChrisR]

My first thought was: Both players going for the ball collide. Rugby accident, play on, no pk, no cards. However, body position/posture of the players and especially the timing (was one late to the dance?) can really impact the scenario so, as crossref said, gotta see the film.

I assume that you awarded the PK otherwise an attacking 5m as white carried the ball into goal.

 

[beckett50]

My initial thoughts are with crossers on this.

The fact that yellow arrives knees first may be material, but one would need to see the incident in order to judge whether his actions were reckless and dangerous; thereby meriting a YC.

If it was purely accidental that, due the nature of the ground, his knees made contact with the White #15 then i think - assuming the nature of the game was ok - a word would be sufficient.

 

[Christy]

For me , as others have said .
Its not a scenario we can judge by what you have typed .
I think we would all have to of been there & seen same .

The best advice , i have taken on board .
Is simply ,,,if its a red card ,,you will not have to think about it ,,or try & ask your self is that red or yellow ..

I would say there is no default red card .in any circumstances .
If its red ,,its because it merits a red card .

It seems to me you had satisfied your self it was not deliberate .
There fore i cant see how it could be reckless ..

Was it even a yellow card ?????

 

[Ian_Cook]

For me , as others have said .
Its not a scenario we can judge by what you have typed .
I think we would all have to of been there & seen same .

The best advice , i have taken on board .
Is simply ,,,if its a red card ,,you will not have to think about it ,,or try & ask your self is that red or yellow ..

I would say there is no default red card .in any circumstances .
If its red ,,its because it merits a red card .

It seems to me you had satisfied your self it was not deliberate .
There fore i cant see how it could be reckless ..

Was it even a yellow card ?????

As referee Fred Howard once said "....if you find your finger pointing to the dressing room, you know it was a sending off offence"

 

[Pinky]

I must say that I don't like this sliding in after the play has all but ended. It often is ignored in showbiz rugby, but in my opinion should not be, but the obvious sanction of restarting with a penalty (after a score) is very rarely seen.

In this case I would be thinking how far apart were yellow and white. Did yellow have to slide in and hit white's head, eg had he been tripped or fallen over? Could he have avoided white by jumping over him instead of sliding in? Depending on my view of the answers to this (and as suggested above the reaction of players) then I would decide on PK (as minimum) YC or RC.