Condescending Refereeing

[shebeen]

Especially not to a black South African.

Good point, but the context is different on a rugby field than in the workplace - the captain who fits that criteria you highlight did call him "sir" back,

I don't think there will be any complaints from Team RSA over the ref and decisions this week, might be a bit amusingly confused as to what is considered a forward pass north of the equator however.

 

[Pinky]

"Boys! Boys! I'll no call ye gentlemen for I know youse tae weel"

Words of Willie McCulloch (a Paisley poet and recitist) as the chairman of Bluebell Chasers FC, calling the meeting to order.

 

[Mipper]

So I am confused by your post above where you said you would "absolutely not" address players as Boys , but for Australians it is what you would expect

Oh, apologies for the confusion.

I am not Australian. Aussies that I know use ‘boys’ in everyday language. I don’t.

I use ‘guys’ in everyday language.

So I have no issue with using ’boys’ it is just that it doesn’t come naturally to me. Make sense?

 

[crossref]

i think the question is not whether it's OK to use in your everyday language : it's whether it is a good word for a referee to use to address players. (I'd say it's not a good choice)

 

[Locke]

In the US, I generally call the youth and senior male players “boys”, occasionally “guys” and less occasionally “gentlemen”. “Gentlemen” would likely be with a wry smile at the irony.
I call the youth and senior female players “ladies”. I’m not aware of any adverse reaction or negative feelings as a result of this.

For what it’s worth, if I called the female players “girls”, I would expect this to be potentially considered condescending but less so the younger they were. Also, if I called an individual male player “boy”, this would be strange and likely condescending.

 

[Mipper]

i think the question is not whether it's OK to use in your everyday language : it's whether it is a good word for a referee to use to address players. (I'd say it's not a good choice)

Oh you

I am definitely not debating its use in everyday language. So again, I’m sorry to have confused you again.

So to be absolutely clear, my reference to everyday language was to show that people’s vocabulary differs, even those of us speaking the same language, so for someone that uses the phrase ‘boys’ as a friendly term for a group of males in everyday scenarios, should not worry about using it as a referee on a rugby pitch.

To use it in the singular of course is wholly different, and that would be condescending, at best!

 

[Balones]

Where does the Welsh ‘boyo’ fit into this?

 

[menace]

Jeepers...while i understand terms can be offensive to some, it's not as if Gardner called anyone a c#nt!

And yes "Boys" is used a lot in Oz, and moreover a term of endearment, but if you didn't know that then surely it's all in the tone?

(Though on some FR I'd love to say "You're not the messiah, you're a very naughty boy").

 

[SimonSmith]

i think the question is not whether it's OK to use in your everyday language : it's whether it is a good word for a referee to use to address players. (I'd say it's not a good choice)

Ah, that's not an absolute. While "gents" would go well in Hampshire, not a flier here. "Boys" would absolutely be OK here.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Boys, gents, lads, I've used them all probably in the same game. It's something I don't think about, just comes out.
I have been known to say that was shit/ crap /awful particularly on bad/amusing kicks

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Especially not to a black South African.

Well I'd not address any single player as boy.

I tend to use Guys, Gents, Boys, Ladies , Girls etc depending on the raport built up with the players pre game. If I'm not sure I'll ask the captains.

 

[Mipper]

Where does the Welsh ‘boyo’ fit into this?

You know what, I’m sure that your post was tongue in cheek but in all seriousness, if I were to use this whilst refereeing Welsh players then that would feel condescending.

Conversely it may well be fine for a Welsh ref.

 

[Balones]

You know what, I’m sure that your post was tongue in cheek but in all seriousness, if I were to use this whilst refereeing Welsh players then that would feel condescending.

Conversely it may well be fine for a Welsh ref.

I was thinking Welsh ref officiating at a game in Wales.

 

[Mipper]

I was thinking Welsh ref officiating at a game in Wales.

Yes, and I would think this would be fine. But being non Welsh and not in Wales I don’t KNOW this to be true.

My point was to highlight the fact that there is no one way of speaking to the players. Different refs, different teams, different cultures etc, etc

 

[crossref]

Yes, and I would think this would be fine. But being non Welsh and not in Wales I don’t KNOW this to be true.

My point was to highlight the fact that there is no one way of speaking to the players. Different refs, different teams, different cultures etc, etc

which of course is true and 'boys' would be entirely appropriate when refereeing U12s.

Q: might it be acceptable in some games to address the players as 'boys'
A: well yes when they are boys obv. And refs may like to argue that it's perfectly OK for adults in their local culture, and who could gainsay that?

But the OP question was different, it was more specific

Was the referee in today's match between Eng and SA condescending by consistently referring to the players as boys?

ie adults, and not only adults a set of elite athletes, from different cultures (and from different ethnic backgrounds if that matters) playing for their country.
should they be addressed as 'boys' ?

BTW - overall I like AG - I like the way he refs -- and I actually like the way he talks to the players -- (but I do think that word was a bit of a mistake)

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I was thinking Welsh ref officiating at a game in Wales.

As if by magic we back come full circle to title of the thread...

 

[didds]

this may have been alluded to back in the midsts of time... but possibly (in the little I know) a white referee using the term "boy" to a balck SA player could be ... tricky...

(happy to be wrong!)

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I think you can only get away with calling someone boy if you're an enormous chicken..

 

[BikingBud]

Interesting range of answers and my primary query was to see if people considered calling male adult players boys as unacceptable, as some had considered calling female adult players girls.

I think the only thing I can conclude is there is no correct answer.

 

[crossref]

Interesting range of answers and my primary query was to see if people considered calling male adult players boys as unacceptable, as some had considered calling female adult players girls.

I think the only thing I can conclude is there is no correct answer.

I would that say that .. for a male ref .. actually addressing women on the pitch as "girls" would be unacceptable wouldn't you ?
I would expect that to be likely called out on the pitch

(And you didn't say what you thought about AG choice of words on Saturday?)