Condescending Refereeing

crossref


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So today's game, was like that old "close your eyes and don't think about elephants"

I just couldn't get "boys" out of my head


In the end I addressed them as boys twice, but I think I got away with it 😉
 

Marc Wakeham


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I accept this is a real off the wall suggestion. But I willl put it here anay way:

Why not ask the players what they would like?
 

crossref


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I accept this is a real off the wall suggestion. But I willl put it here anay way:

Why not ask the players what they would like?
I wouldn't be able to stick to it .. in the heat of the moment I would revert to habitual language.

It's like for women refs, in the heat of the moment players revert to Sir.
 

Dixpat

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I wouldn't be able to stick to it .. in the heat of the moment I would revert to habitual language.

It's like for women refs, in the heat of the moment players revert to Sir.
Isn't this is what AG is being criticised for?
 

Jarrod Burton


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Not everyone is on-board with the idea that it's inappropriate.
At what point do you need to draw the line? What if different players in the same match don't like the term Gentlemen, or "Ladies" and "guys"?

I think AG using the term boys has been overblown from a general collective noun for a group of men commonly used in Australia to the inference that he is some sort of whip cracking plantation owner using it as a pejorative based on the colour of the skin of some of the players.

As much as this left leaning person hates the term, seems a bit too woke for me.
 

OB..


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The female refs I know are quite happy to be addressed as "Sir". It implies equality.
 

Mipper


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At what point do you need to draw the line? What if different players in the same match don't like the term Gentlemen, or "Ladies" and "guys"?

I think AG using the term boys has been overblown from a general collective noun for a group of men commonly used in Australia to the inference that he is some sort of whip cracking plantation owner using it as a pejorative based on the colour of the skin of some of the players.

As much as this left leaning person hates the term, seems a bit too woke for me.
I believe that this was exactly my point.

”Boys” is acceptable for AG in a way it wouldn’t be for others, as it’s not a habitual term for everyone.
 

SimonSmith


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At what point do you need to draw the line? What if different players in the same match don't like the term Gentlemen, or "Ladies" and "guys"?

I think AG using the term boys has been overblown from a general collective noun for a group of men commonly used in Australia to the inference that he is some sort of whip cracking plantation owner using it as a pejorative based on the colour of the skin of some of the players.

As much as this left leaning person hates the term, seems a bit too woke for me.
I reckon if the players are good with calling me mate, I'm good with them being boys or fellahs.

To be clear, I've got Kiwis, White Aussie, Pasifika, Aboriginal Aussie, so as long as they smile when they talk to me, IDGAF
 

tim White


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Tone of the spoken word is far more important than the actual word -we can all pretty well tell if it is respectful or intended to be demeaning.
 

Volun-selected


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The female refs I know are quite happy to be addressed as "Sir". It implies equality.

Before I picked up the whistle, calling me sir would usually get the response “don’t call me sir, I work for a living“. I can tolerate it now, but in my pre-match I will tell the captains that I’m just as happy to called “ref”.

What does weird me out is that I’ve had several matches where the coach has introduced me to their team as “the Sir”.
 

OB..


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Before I picked up the whistle, calling me sir would usually get the response “don’t call me sir, I work for a living“. I can tolerate it now, but in my pre-match I will tell the captains that I’m just as happy to called “ref”.

What does weird me out is that I’ve had several matches where the coach has introduced me to their team as “the Sir”.
I think that is a US thing ?
"Verbing weirds language" (Calvin and Hobbes https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/01/25)
 

Rich_NL

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It didn't strike me in the least as condescending. Personally, I use ladies and gents - although I ref lower level and youth games in Dutch, usually, as there are fewer expats involved. In Dutch, "boys" is the same word you use for "guys", and can also be used for mixed groups and even women, in some circumstances.

Language is a complicated, context-sensitive thing, and striving for purity is a lost cause. If you're reffing in an area and at a level where certain words have a negative connotation, don't use them or you'll have trouble managing the players. I can't imagine test players feel too troubled by the word "boys", but we'd have to ask them to be sure.
 

BikingBud


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He obviously did not receive the email as he is happy to continue calling international athletes boys🤷‍♂️

Scotland v Italy game clock 55:19 in wrapping up a telling off to the front row "Understand boys?"

Tone and context?
 

crossref


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He obviously did not receive the email as he is happy to continue calling international athletes boys🤷‍♂️

Scotland v Italy game clock 55:19 in wrapping up a telling off to the front row "Understand boys?"

Tone and context?
Context is "a telling off " ?
Phrase used is "understand, boys?"' ?

What do you think , bud ?
 
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Jz558


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I believe that this was exactly my point.

”Boys” is acceptable for AG in a way it wouldn’t be for others, as it’s not a habitual term for everyone.

This and Jarrod's point seem relevant here. The origin of the user should be taken into account when considering phraseology. Away from rugby, being referred to as "me duck" by someone from the East Midlands would be perfectly normal but would seem a bit odd if the person saying it was from Essex or Somerset. Personally I use the term "fellas" mostly when I ref which seems to work and, in so far as I've previously thought about it, seems more appropriate than "gents".

The instructor for my refs course was female and when asked how she wanted to be addressed on the pitch by teams said she didnt care as long as it was polite but thought being called maam, as she had on a few occasions, didnt sound right. In the two games of womans rugby I've reffed I have asked how they prefer to be addressed as a collective and was told they didnt care. I did notice though that the phrase they seemed to mostly use for a collective was "guys" although admittedly the sample size of evidence is fairly small on that.
 

crossref


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This and Jarrod's point seem relevant here. The origin of the user should be taken into account when considering phraseology. Away from rugby, being referred to as "me duck" by someone from the East Midlands would be perfectly normal but would seem a bit odd if the person saying it was from Essex or Somerset. Personally I use the term "fellas" mostly when I ref which seems to work and, in so far as I've previously thought about it, seems more appropriate than "gents".

sooooo, then.....

taking into account the origin of the ref and the players, the teams being reffed, the elite level of the game, the manner of the game. the context and nature of the conversation.. and everything else that should be taken account of ........ what do you think about the use of the phrase "Understand, boys?" ?
 
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Jz558


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sooooo, then.....

taking into account the origin of the ref and the players, the teams being reffed, the elite level of the game, the manner of the game. the context and nature of the conversation.. and everything else that should be taken account of ........ what do you think about the use of the phrase "Understand, boys?" ?
Not at all out of the ordinary and, when I was playing and what I hear now on the field, commonplace for officials and amongst team members.
 
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