Conversion - Yes or No?

[Blindpugh]

I am posting this here as it could happen in senior as well as junior rugby i.e. with club TJ's.

Club referee of Under 15 league match with club TJ's.

Blue score try with last play. Score 14 - 14 with conversion from 5 metre line on 22 to win match. Referee stands next to kicker and at point when TJ's need to make decision. One puts their flag up whilst the other keeps his flag down!:wtf::wtf:

From his location referee cannot tell if conversion went over bar or not and consults with TJ's who stick by their decisions. :chin:

After much consultation with coaches involved! Referee decides to disallow try and has decided to phone a friend to see if he is right or wrong as complaint has been received.

Oh and a Merry Christmas and Happy and healthy New Year to you all.

 

[crossref]

He just has to make his own best judgement .. did he think it went over , or not

 

[Flish]

He just has to make his own best judgement .. did he think it went over , or not

Yup, this, tough as that may be, I'm mostly envious he had enough TJ's to cause a conflict!

 

[Taff]

... Referee stands next to kicker and at point when TJ's need to make decision. One puts their flag up whilst the other keeps his flag down! From his location referee cannot tell if conversion went over bar or not and consults with TJ's who stick by their decisions. :chin: After much consultation with coaches involved! Referee decides to disallow try and has decided to phone a friend to see if he is right or wrong as complaint has been received.

I don't see how the Referee can "disallow the try" having already given it.

As Crossref says, I reckon it's on the Ref to decide one way or the other if the conversion was good. It's a tough one, but that's what he's paid for. Oh hang about ... :biggrin:

 

[didds]

Blue score try with last play..... [conversion] One puts their flag up whilst the other keeps his flag down!:wtf::wtf:

From his location referee cannot tell if conversion went over bar or not and consults with TJ's who stick by their decisions. :chin:

After much consultation with coaches involved! Referee decides to disallow try ...

why disallow the try?

didds

 

[Flish]

I think the disallow bit was said in jest, I hope!

 

[Blindpugh]

I don't see how the Referee can "disallow the try" having already given it.

As Crossref says, I reckon it's on the Ref to decide one way or the other if the conversion was good. It's a tough one, but that's what he's paid for. Oh hang about ... :biggrin:

Apologies I didn't check my typing :noyc: I confirm he allowed try which made it 14 all.

So if confronted with this situation and you couldn't tell if it had gone over or not what would you have done?

 

[didds]

this must be such a reasonably common occurrence ie its not unlikely to happen to a ref, I would imagine there is an agreed protocol in place surely?

didds

 

[crossref]

Apologies I didn't check my typing :noyc: I confirm he allowed try which made it 14 all.

So if confronted with this situation and you couldn't tell if it had gone over or not what would you have done?

Made a decision on balance of probabilities

Imagine there had been a video and you were just about to see it, and had to bet £10 on what it was going to reveal, what would you bet ?

That's the answer

Lesson ... For every conversion stand close and focus ... You never know when it will be important

 

[Marc Wakeham]

I assume Kicker's AR said YES and the No kicking side's AR said NO.

Tricky one .


For the future, I'd say check your positioning, you should have a pretty good idea. Folllow the ball in and you should be pretty sure yourself. Not always I accept.



Where was the doubt? Pulled wide of the near upright or pushed past the far one? Or was it the crossbar clearence? Which AR would have had the better view of the "contentious" area?


Just re-read the OP the crossbar. OK. Go with the closest AR and sell it positively.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I was running touch at a tournament years ago when my lad played. Me and other TJ (coach of other team) watched (our) PK or conversion sail between posts (albeit higher than height of posts). I said "yes" as per protocol. He said nothing but I had by this time put up my flag. Referee called us on. We were both adamant the kick was good/bad and held our respective positions. Referee ruled it missed "because we could not agree" which nearly had me suggest the opposite should equally apply.

Anyway we trudged back to our respective lines him thinking "phew that was fortunate" and me thinking "cheating twat"

 

[crossref]

Never choose a touch judge
Never default to no (why not yes)

Just say, confidently "it was really close but I was watching carefully and I have to say I thought it was (whatever you thought)

That's the ONLY thing that no one can disagree with in principle .

They may disagree with your judgment .. but they will agree that it is correct for you to make a judgement .. that is the point of having you

 

[Taff]

.... So if confronted with this situation and you couldn't tell if it had gone over or not what would you have done?

I think you would have to work on the assumption what would I have said if there were no TJs?

... Just say, confidently "it was really close but I was watching carefully and I have to say I thought it was (whatever you thought). That's the ONLY thing that no one can disagree with in principle.

Quite. And there's a way to speak to the TJ without alienating him and creating an enemy for life. :biggrin:

I had something similar with a TJ when a PK was kicked to the corner. The TJ said it had been kicked through in-goal but I didn't. With my most diplomatic voice I just said "That was close, but from where I was standing it looked as if it was just this side of the flag". As long as you don't embarrass him, they'll probably be OK with your decision.

 

[crossref]

I think you would have to work on the assumption what would I have said if there were no TJs?


. .

And let's face it, the answer is likely to be "If I hadn't got any TIs , I would have been paying more attention"

 

[Dickie E]

would it be completely out of order to invite the kicker to take it again?

 

[Dickie E]

From his location referee cannot tell if conversion went over bar or not and consults with TJ's who stick by their decisions. :chin:

After much consultation with coaches involved! Referee decides to disallow try and has decided to phone a friend to see if he is right or wrong as complaint has been received.

I remember an old baseball umpire telling me that the more line ball a decision is, the more confidently you have to be seen to be making it.

 

[OB..]

If it is a question of the ball being above post height, I would be more likely to trust the TJ nearest the relevant post. He has a better view. (A good TJ would have moved to check more easily.)

 

[TheBFG]

U15's and the score is 14-14, draw sounds like a good result! Mines an OJ and lemonade please :wink:

as a ref, (unless i have appointed AR's). If we have a one up one down situation, then i go with what I've seen.

 

[crossref]

If it is a question of the ball being above post height, I would be more likely to trust the TJ nearest the relevant post. He has a better view. (A good TJ would have moved to check more easily.)

With ARs possibly do that
With TJ when this happens it is ALWAYS the TJ from the kicking team with his flag up, and the one from the other team with his flag down.

My advice is to beam them up immediately..
Pay no attention to where they were standing

 

[OB..]

With ARs possibly do that
With TJ when this happens it is ALWAYS the TJ from the kicking team with his flag up, and the one from the other team with his flag down.

My advice is to beam them up immediately..
Pay no attention to where they were standing

Overly cynical!