Craig Joubert's loss of form

leaguerefaus


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Only saw the last 25mins and it all looked good to me, but I thought I'd start this thread to save Ian the trouble ;)

Seriously though... WHAT A GAME! What a finish!
 

Dickie E


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Richie Mccaw conceding the penalty to lose the game. Priceless.
 

Adam


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Richie Mccaw conceding the penalty to lose the game. Priceless.

I wish I could have seen it, but it took until about 9pm to get through security etc. It's like they don't actually want me to leave!
 

Ian_Cook


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Richie Mccaw conceding the penalty to lose the game. Priceless.

It should never have come to that. They go them selves into position to win, led by two points with four minutes to go, they won possession shortly after the kick off, and what did they do.... the same thing that kept getting them into trouble all night... KICKED THE EFFING BALL DOWN ISRAEL FOLOU'S THROAT.

They could have and should have won that match, but Blackadder's dumb tactic of kicking away possession was their undoing. I am pretty certain I know what a team like Leicester Tigers or Saracens would do in that game situation....Pick and drive, Pick and drive, Pick and drive, Pick and drive, Pick and drive, Pick and drive, Pick and drive, Pick and drive, Pick and drive, Pick and drive, Pick and drive, Pick and drive, Pick and drive, full time siren, kick it out!

God I hope Todd Blackadder gets sacked before next season.
 

Browner

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Only saw the last 25mins and it all looked good to me, but I thought I'd start this thread to save Ian the trouble ;)

Seriously though... WHAT A GAME! What a finish!

I know you jest, but I saw this written on a game blog ......
. 9:32pm: Referee Craig Joubert is handed his medallion ... no cheers for him.
Unsure if it was an observation, or a personal thought of the blogger !
 

The Fat


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I know you jest, but I saw this written on a game blog
...... 9:32pm: Referee Craig Joubert is handed his medallion ... no cheers for him.
Unsure if it was an observation, or a personal thought of the blogger !

I think that may have had a bit to do with what started as a shambles of a presentation ceremony.
Maloney from Fox Sports was introducing and calling names to the stage and there were no ushers telling the people involved what they were supposed to do. Will probably make one of his Top 5 on Rugby HQ
 

Dickie E


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I wish I could have seen it, but it took until about 9pm to get through security etc. It's like they don't actually want me to leave!

We have a special queue for departing Yorkshiremen to make sure they haven't nicked anything :)

Adam, safe travels and hope to catch up again.
 

breako


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Browner

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Loads of very experienced players able to make pitch decisions to close out this game.

If cup final rugby is to be reduced to Pick&go x40 to conclude a match then I'd rather the ref mistakenly blew 3 mins early! ...seriously, how did we ever get to a state of rugby where possession could be held for so long without a realistic ability to steal it....no thanks, its a yawnfest when this happens even if win at all costs requires such a dull conclusion.

Congrats to NSW.

PS, if Blackadder leaves, what chance Richard Cockerill arriving... Lol
 

Ian_Cook


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What about the penalty at the end?

There is no tackle, so McCaw is not offside surely? The ruck forms as he is standing in a legal position (since there is no tackle)

http://www.superxv.com/video/warata...-final-super-rugby-video-video_8afd612c9.html

I certainly have no idea what the penalty was for. There was no tackle; the Waratahs player went straight to ground without being touched. That is the very definition of a Law 14 situation.

[LAWS]LAW 14 DEFINITIONS
This situation occurs when the ball is available on the ground and a player goes
to ground to gather the ball, except immediately after a scrum or a ruck.
It also occurs when a player is on the ground in possession of the ball and has
not been tackled.
[/LAWS]


No tackle = No gate (therefore players are allowed to approach from any direction). CJ gave signal for side entry. WTF?

McCaw was entitled to be where he was; on his feet trying to rip the ball The Crusaders were royally shafted by Joubert's failure to distinguish between a Law 14 situation and a Law 15 tackle. That is a schoolboiy error and a critical one that directly affected the result of a Championship

Of course, it should never have come to that, because the Crusaders kept kicking good possession away, and that is what really cost them in the end.
 
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Ian_Cook


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeAokt5rdes#t=252

It looks like it was adjudged that the two other combatants formed a ruck over the ball , and then McCaw ' side entered' ..... From my viewpoint it looked a harsh call.

The Blue player fell at his feet, and McCaw was therefore first player there. He was already on the ball when the ruck formed. How can you "side enter" a ruck when you are already there when the ruck forms on you?
 

RobLev

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The Blue player fell at his feet, and McCaw was therefore first player there. He was already on the ball when the ruck formed. How can you "side enter" a ruck when you are already there when the ruck forms on you?

I think CJ took the view that McCaw had his hands on the player, not the ball, when the ruck formed; and the ruck when formed did not include him - no-one bound onto him. Does he not in those circumstances have to go back around?

What CJ could in any event have blown for was a red hand scooping the ball back into the immediately preceding ruck; pause at 4:08 and the ball is between the blue player's feet, and there's a red player kneeling on the ground (with a thigh bandage) below him. Red player has quite clearly got his left arm stuck out with his hand beyond the ball - that hand comes down on the ball and pulls it back into the ruck. PK?
 

Ian_Cook


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I think CJ took the view that McCaw had his hands on the player, not the ball, when the ruck formed; and the ruck when formed did not include him - no-one bound onto him. Does he not in those circumstances have to go back around?

I thought his hands were clearly and obviously on the ball.

CJ signalled side entry. It is a fact that no tackle was made (it is undeniable that the blue player went to ground without a hand being laid on him). No tackle means no gate, so where does the side entry come from?

Also, if no player bound him into the ruck, who turned him upside down, the tooth fairy?

What CJ could in any event have blown for was a red hand scooping the ball back into the immediately preceding ruck; pause at 4:08 and the ball is between the blue player's feet, and there's a red player kneeling on the ground (with a thigh bandage) below him. Red player has quite clearly got his left arm stuck out with his hand beyond the ball - that hand comes down on the ball and pulls it back into the ruck. PK?

While that may be true, two wrongs don't make a right. If a referee misses a PK for something, he can't just balance it by making up another PK out of whole cloth. Besides the earlier PK would have been marked a couple of metres further back, and possibly out of the kicker's range.

I don't have a problem with losing the match, I just think the way the game was decided with a dodgy PK is not good enough at the top levels of the game. A player who does something according to the Laws of the Game should reasonably expect not to be penalised. An Elite referee ought to be able to tell the difference between a player going to ground of his own accord and one who is brought to ground by an opponent.

I will also reiterate AGAIN, in case you and others missed it, that the Crusaders had the winning of this game, leading with less than four minutes on the clock, but but they chose twice to kick away possession instead of holding onto the ball. They put themselves in a position where it became possible for a referee's clanger to take the game away from them. They only have themselves to blame for that.
 

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What about the penalty at the end?

There is no tackle, so McCaw is not offside surely? The ruck forms as he is standing in a legal position (since there is no tackle)

Firstly, ignore that the BC went to ground , he tripped over his own player accidentally.

McCaw was entitled to go for the ball, but he didn't get his hands on the ball. However he didn't bind onto any of the two players engaged in rucking either, ( I agree he did have contact with the BC legs), so at this point he isn't creating the ruck with an opponent , once the ruck is created he now has to reposition himself & bind onto his teammate, I accept this is would rarely be actioned in such circumstances but this doesn't negate the requirement - Hense the side entry PK likelihood.

As I said, I think it was a tough call , but at that late point of the game " I sense that Joubert's not going to do anything rash. There'll be no penalties unless it's obvious"
These aren't my words, their Richie McCaws in his autobiography speaking of the RWC 2011final ...... So I guess this decision by CJ must've been 'Obvious'

:)
 

OB..


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Possible CJ thought process:
Player is falling over. McCaw pushes him to ground and holds him there. Tackle. No tackler, since he did not go to ground in the tackle. McCaw should therefore release and enter through the gate. He doesn't. Side entry.
 

menace


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Richie Mccaw conceding the penalty to lose the game. Priceless.

Joubert must have missed the memo about not PKing McCaw??
 
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Ian_Cook


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Possible CJ thought process:
Player is falling over. McCaw pushes him to ground and holds him there. Tackle. No tackler, since he did not go to ground in the tackle. McCaw should therefore release and enter through the gate. He doesn't. Side entry.

Except, as I have pointed out, the Blue player is definitely goes to ground before anyone touches him.

Notackle.png


A: Blue ball carrier's knee is in contact with the ground, so clearly he is grounded.

B: McCaw is still behind the offside line from the previous ruck, and directly behind the ball carrier on the ground even though he does not need to be (so even if one argues it was a tackle, he is still standing in the gate anyway)

C: CJ has a clear view of everything, so WTF was he thinking?
 

Ciaran Trainor


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Very poor Call and could have been reversed for dangerous play when Blue 18 clearly binds onto mccaws legs and upends him.
 
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