Craig Joubert's loss of form

[irishref]

Great game from start to finish. I thought CJ had a great game too and contributed to the entertainment. The final penalty call - well I'll agree with Sir Ruchie's analysis of 50-50 and with that comes "you win some, you lose some".

It was weird to watch the Crusaders take on the Ireland/Ulster game-losing strategy of kicking away possession (to an excellent fullback) when trying to close down a tight game. Yay, finally the kiwis learn something from Ireland...

Oh wait, where are Ireland and Ulster's coaches (last season) from again? ;-)

 

[Browner]

The angrier Ian gets, the more my first post seems to be on the money...

You be careful leaguerefaus, when NZ rugby loses an important match ' heart attack' admissions rocket ( oh, and domestic abuse incidents ) , the last thing anyone wants is Sir Cook blowing a gasket.

 

[Phil E]

You be careful leaguerefaus, when NZ rugby loses an important match ' heart attack' admissions rocket ( oh, and domestic abuse incidents ) , the last thing anyone wants is Sir Cook blowing a gasket.

Cut it out please Browner, there was really no need for that comment. :nono:

 

[Browner]

Which bit, the factual stuff, or the attempt at wit devoid of expletive usage?

Yeah, you're right ...I withdraw the question.

Ps.. Nice to see the profanity toward leaguerefaus removed though...

 

[Dickie E]

and this is only the provincial stuff. Wait til the morning after Bledisloe 1

 

[irishref]

and this is only the provincial stuff. Wait til the morning after Bledisloe 1 View attachment 2963

I can't wait :ireland: !!

 

[Ian_Cook]

It seems those of use who said that Joubert got the last PK wrong have been vindicated.

http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/kaplan-mccaw-penalty-was-wrong

'The final penalty against the Crusaders was (also) incorrect as there was no tackle. This was indeed a very disappointing end to a very well refereed match, and the Crusaders would have reason to feel a little hard done by.''

And this is not from a kiwi website, this is a South African website, and from South Africa's most experienced test referee. So, all the cobblers that was posted in this thread about a ruck forming and McCaw having to retire back and rejoin was just that.... a load of old cobblers.

This is pretty much what I expected after I received an email yesterday from an associate in my trade, who is a former international referee. He said that there was a SANZAR Referees meeting on Monday, and from that, it was reported that CJ himself realised he got the call wrong once he saw the video during his post match assessment.

Hopefully, CJ he will take some learnings from this experience.

 

[Phil E]

The only thing worse than a poor loser......................................................

 

[Browner]

Phil,
until we see whether RM was in contact with the blue rucker at the 'commencement' of the ruck then the accuracy of the decision isnt proven ( no photo or video from the angle needed have been seen)

Currently we have: a poster, saying that his friend summarises, a confirmation that CJ made , at a meeting, that he wasn't at or didn't hear.

Rather than relying on this, I'd be more interested to hear from CJ lips about how he arrived at his decision, reached at match speed.

Until either of these ..........

 

[RobLev]

It seems those of use who said that Joubert got the last PK wrong have been vindicated.

http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/kaplan-mccaw-penalty-was-wrong

'The final penalty against the Crusaders was (also) incorrect as there was no tackle. This was indeed a very disappointing end to a very well refereed match, and the Crusaders would have reason to feel a little hard done by.''

And this is not from a kiwi website, this is a South African website, and from South Africa's most experienced test referee. So, all the cobblers that was posted in this thread about a ruck forming and McCaw having to retire back and rejoin was just that.... a load of old cobblers.

This is pretty much what I expected after I received an email yesterday from an associate in my trade, who is a former international referee. He said that there was a SANZAR Referees meeting on Monday, and from that, it was reported that CJ himself realised he got the call wrong once he saw the video during his post match assessment.

Hopefully, CJ he will take some learnings from this experience.

Since no-one on here was arguing that there was a tackle, the point JK hangs his argument on, I'm not sure that his comment gets you anywhere.

Let's see what CJ says happened - he was after all closer to the action than you, JK or your friend.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Well

1. Probably the most experienced test referee in the world says it was not a PK

2. A few posters at rugbyrefs.com says it was.

I wonder who to believe?

 

[Dickie E]

It seems those of use who said that Joubert got the last PK wrong have been vindicated.

http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/kaplan-mccaw-penalty-was-wrong

'The final penalty against the Crusaders was (also) incorrect as there was no tackle. This was indeed a very disappointing end to a very well refereed match, and the Crusaders would have reason to feel a little hard done by.''

And this is not from a kiwi website, this is a South African website, and from South Africa's most experienced test referee. So, all the cobblers that was posted in this thread about a ruck forming and McCaw having to retire back and rejoin was just that.... a load of old cobblers.

This is pretty much what I expected after I received an email yesterday from an associate in my trade, who is a former international referee. He said that there was a SANZAR Referees meeting on Monday, and from that, it was reported that CJ himself realised he got the call wrong once he saw the video during his post match assessment.

Hopefully, CJ he will take some learnings from this experience.

Please give yourself an infraction point for being a smug tosser

 

[Dickie E]

... partly as a result of the fact that they do not have a dedicated coach ...

now makes sense. JK is looking for a job.

 

[The Fat]

Rather than relying on this, I'd be more interested to hear from CJ lips about how he arrived at his decision, reached at match speed.

This.
It has been lost, during the course of analysis, that this decision was made at full speed in a dynamic situation.
I am not saying that the decision was right or wrong. From the video we have seen, I can't see everything that happened at that ruck.

 

[RobLev]

Well

1. Probably the most experienced test referee in the world says it was not a PK

2. A few posters at rugbyrefs.com says it was.

I wonder who to believe?

Maybe you should look at the video, remember that the referee on the pitch had a far better view than you, me or the most experienced test referee in the world, and consider who has the more compelling reasoning? Perhaps you can fill in the gap between:

there was no tackle

and

the final penalty against the Crusaders was (also) incorrect

because I'm puzzled at the moment.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I was watching a S15 game from a few months ago - Stormers v Bulls with CJ in charge. Stormers won 16-0.

In tha game CJ awarded a total of 31 PKs against both teams (can't recall the split but fairly close). There were no YCs for repeated/team infringements. He never got Matfield/Burger? in as skippers for a word about the count. PKs were predominantly scrum and tackle/post tackle but there was stuff all over.

On top of that Matfield in particular seemed to take numerous opportunities to question CJ's calls and a number of times CJ had to use "not now Victor" to cut him short.

I'm not sure if the escalation PK count is a big deal for showbiz guys but I seem to think they generally start to bang out a few YCs if the count starts climbing.

I recall a game where I gave a similar number of PKs without escalation and I got slaughtered by my observer/assessor I put that down to me feeling unwell and having a couple of dickheads as captains - perhaps CJ had a cold too? :biggrin:

I like CJ and would put him in the top 3 or 4 with Nige, Walsh (generally) and Poite (now Rolland has retired).

Mark Lawrence - don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?

View attachment 2976

 

[Ian_Cook]

I recall a game where I gave a similar number of PKs without escalation and I got slaughtered by my observer/assessor I put that down to me feeling unwell and having a couple of dickheads as captains - perhaps CJ had a cold too? :biggrin:

Oooh, there isn't much worst for a referee than having to spend 80 minutes trying to manage a match when one captain is an arrogant dickhead who won't listen to you, and the other is a stupid dickhead who is too dumb to understand what you're saying.

Mark Lawrence - don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?

View attachment 2976

Ain't that the truth. Top referee, and top bloke.

 

[Blackberry]

Well

1. Probably the most experienced test referee in the world says it was not a PK

2. A few posters at rugbyrefs.com says it was.

I wonder who to believe?

C'mon Ian, its been two weeks now and the suspense is killing me. What's the answer?

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

C'mon Ian, its been two weeks now and the suspense is killing me. What's the answer?

A crew my lord?

Yes a crew!....

Opinion is divided on the subject. All the other captains say you do. I say you don't!

View attachment 2977