[Line out] Crusaders doing what they do best

[ChuckieB]

Crusaders doing what they do best. Should it really be allowed?

Lineout:

• Taufua goes forward and right
• Barrett heads off forward and right
• Blackadder fakes a jump and heads off forward and right

All nicely in position for the catch and drive.

And where's the ball?

Still in Codie Taylor's hands.

This is more than just a change of position.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Good innovative stuff at the lineout. I'm OK with it so long as the player who catches the ball did not jump early - if the player faking the jump is not the player who catches the ball, its immaterial IMO.

 

[Balones]

It is contrary to several laws. If it is not against the law why bother having the law in the first place? Then if the law is not relevant here why not get rid of some of the others that are frequently ignored, especially at the top end of the game?
Quite often see this move being attempted and mention it in reports but there are mixed responses. My bosses agree it is against the law but seem powerless to do anything about it.

 

[Ian_Cook]

It is contrary to several laws. If it is not against the law why bother having the law in the first place? Then if the law is not relevant here why not get rid of some of the others that are frequently ignored, especially at the top end of the game?
Quite often see this move being attempted and mention it in reports but there are mixed responses. My bosses agree it is against the law but seem powerless to do anything about it.

So is hands in the ruck, but we allow..

- Scrum halves to dig for the ball
- Players on the ground in the ruck to keep their hand on the ball after its placed back
- Players on the ground in the ruck to hand the ball up to the scrumhalf


There are often dozens of potential PKs in every game, but as part of game management, referees decide what is material and what is not. If referees didn't do that, if they blew the whistle every time a PK offence happened, the game would run to a standstill.

 

[Taff]

Good innovative stuff at the lineout. I'm OK with it so long as the player who catches the ball did not jump early - if the player faking the jump is not the player who catches the ball, its immaterial IMO.

And my first reaction is why do it then?

It's obviously a pre-planned move, so they obviously think that they're getting an advantage by leaving the LO early.

 

[Christy]

Some clubs who have pre planned line out moves , often advise me of same before kick off .
If this was worded to me , that players would leave the line out well before the ball goes in .
I would probably advise they stay in line out , until ball is thrown in .

May i ask , what was it they were looking to do .
Im guessing a driving maul ,,are they near opposition try line ..

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Good innovative stuff at the lineout. I'm OK with it so long as the player who catches the ball did not jump early - if the player faking the jump is not the player who catches the ball, its immaterial IMO.

It's often done to draw an early jump from a player from the other team. So Blue 5 jumps Red 5 follows as Red 5 is landing THe ball is thrown to Blue 5 who has an advantage. I woud argue that any fake jump is done mislead an opponant, It would therefore be material.

 

[Balones]

So is hands in the ruck, but we allow..

- Scrum halves to dig for the ball
- Players on the ground in the ruck to keep their hand on the ball after its placed back
- Players on the ground in the ruck to hand the ball up to the scrumhalf


There are often dozens of potential PKs in every game, but as part of game management, referees decide what is material and what is not. If referees didn't do that, if they blew the whistle every time a PK offence happened, the game would run to a standstill.

We are in agreement. I just think that we should get rid of the laws that appear to now be redundant. The law book would be even smaller then. I find it frustrating that if I didn’t point out in a report things that the referee ‘allowed’ or ‘missed’ I am the one that would get picked up on it and not the referee.

Usually in the scenario shown in the original post about half a dozen laws are being ignored.

 

[OB..]

[cynic mode]Perhaps the laws should be printed in different colours to indicate which are to be applied and which can be ignored. With a third colour for special cases, such as scrum halves.[/cynic mode]

 

[mcroker]

Those to be ignored could be printed in white

Although personally I’d prefer to see a lot of them enforced (feeding, off-feet being particular favourites)

 

[L'irlandais]

The underlying problem is that Crusaders (mistakenly) think they are the best rugby club on the planet.

 

[Camquin]

Could we have one of those experimental season where the referees actually applied the laws and see what happens.
Then decide which simply need to be rewritten or just discarded.

 

[Ian_Cook]

The underlying problem is that Crusaders (mistakenly) think they are the best rugby club on the planet.

Did you actually WATCH the video?

In the very first minute, its the INTERVIEWER who makes that claim.

And the Crusaders are not a rugby club, they are a regional franchise who represent about 100 rugby clubs

It's often done to draw an early jump from a player from the other team. So Blue 5 jumps Red 5 follows as Red 5 is landing THe ball is thrown to Blue 5 who has an advantage. I woud argue that any fake jump is done mislead an opponant, It would therefore be material.

Oh good. We don't want to allow any action to mislead opponents... so lets make the midfeild dummy pass illegal.

Lets remove all the stuff that makes the game exciting and unpredictable; stop all the things that allow for some individuality and innovation in the game. Lets have boring set piece to set piece rugger, just like the good old days!

And with that, I'm out

 

[Balones]

As far as I see the following laws are being ignored. 18.16, 18.17a, 18.20,18.29d,18.38.
Which of these , if any, should we remove from the law book? Can we replace them by something else?

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Oh good. We don't want to allow any action to mislead opponents... so lets make the midfeild dummy pass illegal.

There is a difference between removing LEGAL deceptions from the game and, MATERIAL, ILLEGAL plays.

 

[Dickie E]

are you guys seeing all this from 2 still photos in the OP or am I missing something?

 

[Balones]

are you guys seeing all this from 2 still photos in the OP or am I missing something?

Fair point but I believe that we (all?) understand what happens dynamically in such scenarios because it is quite a common occurrence now. It is one of those scenarios that seems to be becoming the accepted norm even if it is against the written laws.

 

[crossref]

. It is one of those scenarios that seems to be becoming the accepted norm even if it is against the written laws.

It's worrying that we are heading into the RWC with quite a few of those

 

[Dickie E]

maybe it is peeling off?

 

[ChuckieB]

maybe it is peeling off?

They can't peel until the ball leaves the hand and must keep moving until the line out has ended. Can't say there could even be any expectation that they are to be thrown or passed the ball. They are there purely to participate in the resulting maul.