Dangerous Play vs Foul Play - Assistant Referee Question

jdeagro


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Hey,

Sorry, I know this isn't the right place for this question, but it's the only place I'm currently allowed to post in.

I just became certified as a referee and I wanted to start out as an assistant referee / touch judge before diving in head first into refereeing full games. I was wondering what is the difference between dangerous plays and foul plays, and what are the most common dangerous plays. (For example, during a lineout, if a jumper pulls on his opposing jumper while in the air, is this enough to be considered dangerous play?)

The second part of my question is, do assistant referees alert the referee on both occurrences or only on dangerous plays (i.e. by holding the touch flag at a right angle to the touch line of the pitch)?

Thanks,
-Jon DeAgro
 

didds

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on the whole ARs are only ever appointed to the match by their society etc... club appointees/passing bloke handed a flag only have TJ responsibilities - basically marking touch and flagging goals.

didds
 

jdeagro


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Yeah, I know. But my society is assigning ARs for all upcoming games to give us newbies experience. Hence my questions, and just to know in general as a ref. what is considered dangerous play.
 

Ian_Cook


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Yeah, I know. But my society is assigning ARs for all upcoming games to give us newbies experience. Hence my questions, and just to know in general as a ref. what is considered dangerous play.


As an AR, you should be briefed by your referee as to what he wants you to do.

Some ask that you signal foul play and dangerous play only. Others could ask you to call in knock-ons, forward throws as well, while others might also want you to mark the offside line at rucks and mauls, or watch the binding of props in the side opposite him.

How much the referee asks you to do will depend on your experience and level of expertise.
 

jdeagro


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As an AR, you should be briefed by your referee as to what he wants you to do.

Some ask that you signal foul play and dangerous play only. Others could ask you to call in knock-ons, forward throws as well, while others might also want you to mark the offside line at rucks and mauls, or watch the binding of props in the side opposite him.

How much the referee asks you to do will depend on your experience and level of expertise.

True, I guess that makes sense. But I guess I'm still trying to learn what constitutes dangerous play?
 

Davet

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Dangerous play is foul play - see Law 10.4 here

That gives the basics, but there can be a line between dangerous and OK that is quite fine, hard to define and, and moves depending on context - experience is your friend there, and you just need to watch lots of rugby at the level you will be officiating to get a feel for it. Watch every game you game you can, at that level - ignore professional rugby, they have their own protocols that are not relevant to us.
 

Ian_Cook


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Dangerous play is foul play - see Law 10.4 here

That gives the basics, but there can be a line between dangerous and OK that is quite fine, hard to define and, and moves depending on context - experience is your friend there, and you just need to watch lots of rugby at the level you will be officiating to get a feel for it. Watch every game you game you can, at that level - ignore professional rugby, they have their own protocols that are not relevant to us.


I would just like to clarify Davets post

Dangerous play is always Foul Play, but Foul Play is not always Dangerous Play. Obstruction, throwing the ball into touch, intentional infringing of any Laws of the Game, time wasting and repeated infringements (even if unintentional) are all Foul Play but not Dangerous Play.
 

Jacko


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I would just like to clarify Davets post

Dangerous play is always Foul Play, but Foul Play is not always Dangerous Play. Obstruction, throwing the ball into touch, intentional infringing of any Laws of the Game, time wasting and repeated infringements (even if unintentional) are all Foul Play but not Dangerous Play.

And this is where the briefing is crucial. I would expect my ARs to flag if the ball was deliberately thrown into touch, but if my AR stuck his flag in because he felt I was missing some time wasting or repeated infringements, I would find a new home for his flag. I would expect a flag for ANY dangerous play, whether I've seen it or not.
 

jdeagro


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Thanks. I guess I wrapped my head around it better from all your responses. In particular, during lineouts would you consider it dangerous play if a jumper pushed/pulled/tugged down on another jumper?
 

analyzer_mike


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Thanks. I guess I wrapped my head around it better from all your responses. In particular, during lineouts would you consider it dangerous play if a jumper pushed/pulled/tugged down on another jumper?

well...for me..if a jumper pushed/pulled/tugged down on another jumper..that was a foul play and for my opinion...i will consider it as a dangerous play because if the jumper was at the highest point..and he being pulled down..so maybe it will cause an injury to him...

Law 19.10 (g) Lowering a Player. Players who support a jumping team-mate must lower that player to the ground as soon as the ball has been won by a player of either team.
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line

as the law also said that a jumping team mate must lower the player..so if the jumping team mate just release the jumper on the air..we can give a free kick to the team rite?

so if the situation is happen..i would consider it as a dangerous play..

just my opinion...Seniors please teach us.. :chin:
 

Dickie E


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Generally speaking an AR can flag for any Law 10 offence.
 

analyzer_mike


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Generally speaking an AR can flag for any Law 10 offence.

Thanks for the info :)

well...a situation occured yesterday..i was the AR..at a time..there was a ruck...the ball possesion is at blue..red 7 retiring to the offside line..but before he get back to the offside line..the ball was out from the ruck and red's 7 join the play... i had shouted to the player that he is offside and do not interfere with the play but he join the play...no comm set were used and the referee did not hear me..after that knock on occured by the blue and red get the scrum...

My question is...should i approach the ref in the field to report the offside?

Thanks :)
 

didds

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Is that not offside rather than foul play?

didds
 

Davet

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Mike - the AR reports foul play - offside is not foul play.

Had the ref asked you report such things?

Jdeagro - contact in the linout can vary enormously - you say pulled, pushed, tugged - well it may or may not be dangerous; you need to judge if the action is liable to result in injury (whether it actually does so or not is irrelevant).

Depending on the circumstances at the time - jumper at top of jump, how much of a contact, conditions, etc. etc. - you will need to make a judgement.

That requires experience - so i repeat my prevuous advice - go and WATCH lots of games at the level you will be operating at, see how they go, see what your peers do, understand what the players are doing and their level of skill - then you have some background to make a judgement from.
 

Dixie


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Thanks. I guess I wrapped my head around it better from all your responses. In particular, during lineouts would you consider it dangerous play if a jumper pushed/pulled/tugged down on another jumper?
At the lineout, jumpers should be looking to play the ball not the man. Anything that looks like playing the man, particularly at the lower levels, is probably worth penalising to set out your stall. There is one exception - players arms when trying to go for the ball may become entangled. If as a result there is contact with the man, try not to penalise. But contrary to my usual stance (ping the action, not the outcome), this is an area where if the jumper is destabilised by accidental contact and falls out of control, a PK (but not card) may well be justified, to dampen down the flashpoint and to set out the stall for future lineouts.

Law 19.10 (g) Lowering a Player. Players who support a jumping team-mate must lower that player to the ground as soon as the ball has been won by a player of either team.
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line

as the law also said that a jumping team mate must lower the player..so if the jumping team mate just release the jumper on the air..we can give a free kick to the team rite?
That is correct. Like all offences, if it is marginal you may choose to let it go. There's a big difference between letting a guy go as you thrust him up, and letting him go 5cm from the ground having lowered him almost 2m. Ultimately, you have a safety tolerance, and you exercise your judgement - don't referee like a robot.

Welcome to the forums, Analyze_Mike.
 

Davet

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Dixie - good, even excellent, advice for a ref.

The thread is about AR duties.
 
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