[In-goal] Defender knocks kick back into his own touch-in-goal. How to restart ?

[CrouchTPEngage]

From my game last weekend,

Red penalty kick (to touch) is messed up by the Blue fullback. About 2 metres from his own goal-line, he knocks it backwards into his own in-goal area. The ball then bounces (oddly) and rolls into touch-in-goal.

How should I restart the game ?

Options
(a) 5m line-out to Red.
(b) Attacking scrum to Red, 5m out and 5m from touch ?
(c) 22 Drop-out ?

There was some debate at the time.

 

[didds]

Certainly not C. Blue played the ball in-goal.

remember DIDDS - Defender In DeaD Scrum

whether TiG offers a lineout option I can't confirm but it feels "wrong".

didds

 

[Phil E]

Ball played into in-goal and made dead (doesn't matter how it was made dead).
Attacking scrum 5 and 5.

[LAWS]Law 19.1

Infringement
The ball is taken into ingoal
by the defending
team and made dead.

Location
In the scrum zone at the
point closest to where the
ball was made dead.

Who throws in
The attacking team.[/LAWS]

 

[CrouchTPEngage]

So the debate was that some players argued it was (a) .
Their reasoning was.

Law 18.1
The ball is in touch or touch-in-goal when:
The ball or ball-carrier touches the touchline, touch-in-goal line or anything beyond.

And that the touch law trumps the "ball is dead in goal" law.

Also, people were conflating it with the situation where a kick (from open play) is kicked into in-goal :Same consequence if the ball is kicked long or out into touch-in-goal. Some people said it was wrong to conflate the 2 scenarios. Hence, simply put, the ball has crossed a touch line ( whether this is touch or touch-in-goal ) and so the first appropriate restart is a line-out to attacking side 5metres out.

Interesting. But I sided with 5m scrum and applied "Law 0"

 

[Phil E]

So the debate was that some players argued it was (a) .
Their reasoning was.

Law 18.1
The ball is in touch or touch-in-goal when:
The ball or ball-carrier touches the touchline, touch-in-goal line or anything beyond.

And that the touch law trumps the "ball is dead in goal" law.

Also, people were conflating it with the situation where a kick (from open play) is kicked into in-goal :Same consequence if the ball is kicked long or out into touch-in-goal. Some people said it was wrong to conflate the 2 scenarios. Hence, simply put, the ball has crossed a touch line ( whether this is touch or touch-in-goal ) and so the first appropriate restart is a line-out to attacking side 5metres out.

Interesting. But I sided with 5m scrum and applied "Law 0"

Law 18.1 simply states when the ball is in touch or touch-in-goal. It doesn't give a sanction, or mention anywhere that a lineout results.

The law definitions differentiate between touch and touch-in-goal, showing they are not one and the same.

In the lineout matrix touch-in-goal is never mentioned as creating a lineout, only touch is listed in the matrix.

 

[Pinky]

So the debate was that some players argued it was (a) .
Their reasoning was.

Law 18.1
The ball is in touch or touch-in-goal when:
The ball or ball-carrier touches the touchline, touch-in-goal line or anything beyond.

And that the touch law trumps the "ball is dead in goal" law.

Also, people were conflating it with the situation where a kick (from open play) is kicked into in-goal :Same consequence if the ball is kicked long or out into touch-in-goal. Some people said it was wrong to conflate the 2 scenarios. Hence, simply put, the ball has crossed a touch line ( whether this is touch or touch-in-goal ) and so the first appropriate restart is a line-out to attacking side 5metres out.

Interesting. But I sided with 5m scrum and applied "Law 0"

There is a fundamental difference between crossing the touch line and tig. Crossing tig means the ball has been in in-goal and gone dead there so if it is kicked by attackers it is a 22 DO or if it was last played (in the fop) like in the OP, by a defender, then it has been played into in-goal by a defender and it is an attacking 5m scrum.

 

[Taff]

B.

It's not a LO as it went over TiG.
It's not a 22m DO as the defending side put it in goal and it went dead.

 

[Dickie E]

TiG is an extension of the DBL, not the touchline

 

[Camquin]

I think the Op is slightly confused because it was a penalty and if it goes into TOUCH the kicking side gets the throw in.

But if it goes into TIG you get no benefit - if a penalty kick is too long and goes into TIG defenders get a Drop Out.
In this case attackers get a scrum 5

 

[Phil E]

if a penalty kick is too long and goes into TIG defenders get a Drop Out.

If the penalty was a kick at goal that goes wide into touch-in-goal, then yes its a dropout.

If it's a penalty kick (not a shot at goal) that goes through in-goal then there is an option of a scrum where the kick was taken from, or a drop out.