Deliberate Knock On At A Tackle / Ruck?

[Taff]

Just watching the Exeter v Newcastle game on BT Sport.

Black makes a break and gets tackled. Green tries to jackle the ball when Black SH lifts the ball but while winding up for a pass, the Green jackler swings his left arm round and knocks the ball backwards. If you're watching it on replay it's at approx 27 mins 30 secs game clock.

The Green player gets :noyc: but I can't see why. He was onside, on his feet and knocked the ball backwards towards his own goal line.

What's the problem? :chin:

 

[Flish]

I thought the same, I expected a yellow card because that seems the norm, yet the player was bound on to the ruck so had a right to be there, then once ball was lifted the ruck was over so he had a right to play the ball and the player, in law.

 

[Taff]

I thought the same, I expected a yellow card because that seems the norm, yet the player was bound on to the ruck so had a right to be there, then once ball was lifted the ruck was over so he had a right to play the ball and the player, in law.

Exactly. One of the commentators hinted that he thought it was a harsh decison, but judging by the tone of his voice he wasn't confident about it.

Luckily, Exeter won comfortably anyway, so it wasn't a critical decision.

 

[Flish]

We’re so used to ‘playing the 9’ being penalised that it’s expected, half the time it is a pen, but it’s never explained properly as to why (eg unbinding before ruck over / offside) so we have this mythical offence ?

 

[Taff]

We’re so used to ‘playing the 9’ being penalised that it’s expected, half the time it is a pen, but it’s never explained properly as to why (eg unbinding before ruck over / offside) so we have this mythical offence ��

I take your point Flish, but I'm not even sure this was a Ruck; from memory it was a tackle.

And the "offender" was legally part of the ruck / tackle anyway. The problem for the SH was that he took too long to wind up his pass after lifting the ball. Everyone talked about a deliberate knock-on, while ignoring the fact that it was knocked backwards.

 

[DocY]

We’re so used to ‘playing the 9’ being penalised that it’s expected, half the time it is a pen, but it’s never explained properly as to why (eg unbinding before ruck over / offside) so we have this mythical offence 

You expect commentators to be confused by such things, but a referee at that level really shouldn't!

 

[Flish]

About 1:20 into the video at http://sport.bt.com/video/highlights-exeter-chiefs-36-5-newcastle-falcons-91364272814002

If we ignore the need to be on your feet as it's the premiership, then there's a ruck there, but he basically leans over hooks the arm / ball back towards the ex ruck / thing / tackle so play on for me

 

[Phil E]

Not convinced it was backwards from that video.

 

[Pinky]

Agree with Phil E, also not convinced he was on his feet and behind the back foot when the 9 picked it up, so think the PK is justified.

 

[Flish]

Not the best video but can't find a better one, he definitely hooked it backwards though, that was quite clear at the time. Ref says 'off feet and diving over the ruck', he looked like he was on his feet (certainly by premiership standards) until the partial clear out, but he didn't dive until it was lifted. That certainly was my impressions at the time and the replays, not seen anything to change that, but can appreciate how that clip might not be clear.

 

[Thunderhorse1986]

I am not sure being "off feet" is appropriate here - you can after all make a diving tackle, and attempt to dislodge the ball, I see this as somewhat similar. 9 has picked up the ball, once he's done that he is fair game.

For me the penalty can go against the retreating Newcastle player who is offside who gathers the loose ball. He never retires behind the front foot and stops a potential attack 7m from his own goal line. Penalty and YC.

 

[Flish]

I could buy the offside, certainly didn't seem to retreat far enough back - but that's not what he gave it for!

 

[VM75]

A ruck is definitely formed.

The modern fixation with permitting the possession team to handle freely, but curtailing the defending side the opportunity to disrupt their continuity baffles us who preferred to see a fair possession contest, it probably delights those who want Union to morph into league.

I wasn't surprised by the decision given.