Deliberate Knock On?

BikingBud


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Watching a EC game yesterday there was a knock on by a chaser, that had high forward speed and next to no chance of catching the ball, the offence prevented the primed receiver from fielding the ball and counter attacking not sure how clear the run in was but why not also consider penalty try?

I felt straight away that it was a deliberate knock on, no realistic chance of catching, but only given as a knock on!

Would you consider a penalty for deliberate knock on by a chaser in those circumstances?
 

chbg


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Presumably he knocked on a pass from his own team? Therefore it wasn't an intercept knock-on, but rather a pass that went astray and the player did the only thing that he could to catch it? I don't think that a PK would be my first thought in such circumstances, but you would not be wrong in Law. back to the discussion on what a reasonable player / coach (small field, I know) would expect.
 

Dickie E


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In law it is conceivable but I've never anything like this given.

SH passes a shocker to his #10. The #10 never has a chance to catch the ball but lunges, gets a fingertip to it & knocks on. Sanction?
 

crossref


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It was a kick
A team mate of the kicker did a one handed knock on that .. had it been done by the opponent... would definitely have earned a PK and possible YC

A scrum was given

So, should both teams he treated equally or is the kicking side treated favourably
 

didds

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It never has. I doubt it ever will.

Scrum.
 

Jarrod Burton


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Why would you deliberately knock on your own ball? Deliberate knock ons could occur from a kick, but almost exclusively from passing. I'd pretty catagorically say that I can't think of a reason to PK a deliberate KO after a kick - apart from maybe a swat into touch from a kick to end the match.
 

didds

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I can see what the OP is getting at I think. I now have a better appreciation form above.

red kick, red 14 chases. The kick is a tad too far and blue 11 may catch it more easily and sprint the length of the field to score. So red 14 ends up knocking on an intended catch that he had minimal chance of making it thus preventing blue 11 catchuing and scoring.

It the ssame scenario as a defender knocking on 5m from the line in an attempted intercept tyhat is hopeful at best but preventing an otherwise likely score.

the oinly differences here is who made the pass, and the distance to score. Or if you like one is an knocked on intercept that prevents a pass from scoring, and the other is a knocked on pass that prevents an intercept form scoring.

Its a good question! TBH I still tyhink its unlikely to be awarded ... because its just not where mindsets are. but indeed _maybe- it should.

Even if not an interceopt try it could well have been an intercept that gains blue 70m of territory and pressure
 

crossref


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Basically, on some circumstances, you have two players leaping for the ball, it's 50 / 50 who will catch it, but only one of them has a possible PK to worry about, if he knocks on
 

chbg


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On chasing a kick, if the KO was perceived to be deliberate in order to prevent the opposition gathering the ball (e.g. 'goal-keeper's punch', or absolute fingertip nudge - as a deliberate movement, not just at limit of reach) then I can certainly see that as being assessed to be 'intentional' and liable to PK. I think that it would be fair to say that more leeway would be given to a player from the team previously in possession of the ball.
 

crossref


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On chasing a kick, if the KO was perceived to be deliberate in order to prevent the opposition gathering the ball (e.g. 'goal-keeper's punch', or absolute fingertip nudge - as a deliberate movement, not just at limit of reach) then I can certainly see that as being assessed to be 'intentional' and liable to PK. I think that it would be fair to say that more leeway would be given to a player from the team previously in possession of the ball.
Perhaps the leeweay should go to the person with the best chance of scoring, and more suspicion levelled against the defender ?
 

crossref


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The incident in question looked a bit like Maradonna's hand of God.
I think the ref could have sold a PK if he had felt inclined
 

BikingBud


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On chasing a kick, if the KO was perceived to be deliberate in order to prevent the opposition gathering the ball (e.g. 'goal-keeper's punch', or absolute fingertip nudge - as a deliberate movement, not just at limit of reach) then I can certainly see that as being assessed to be 'intentional' and liable to PK. I think that it would be fair to say that more leeway would be given to a player from the team previously in possession of the ball.
Why, red decided to kick, they gave up possession and possibly advantage.

Why should a team that has ceded possession have any leeway?

Red chaser didn't get there, had very little real chance of getting there, but knocked on so as to prevent blue from fielding the ball and attacking.

To me absolutely no different from the defender trying to wrap for the tackle but the attacker throwing a speculative pass that hits the defender's arm. The defender being called for deliberate knock and then finding themselves under the posts minus one player.

We seem play the laws that are fashionable and follow trends that are set rather than applying the laws equitably.
 

BikingBud


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The incident in question looked a bit like Maradonna's hand of God.
I think the ref could have sold a PK if he had felt inclined
The question is why didn't he feel inclined?

To me clear cut and should have been pinged.
Perhaps the leeweay should go to the person with the best chance of scoring, and more suspicion levelled against the defender ?
Where does leeway appear in the law book? Does that mean you let things go if a team are attacking? Bit like Nigel Owns once commenting "no you are too far in front" to the chasers at a kick off! Intimating that he will apply "leeway" as long as people don't take the mickey. Offside is offside, poor policing of the offside line and giving encroaching players some "leeway" stifles the game.

Back to the KO, offence committed, give advantage to non-offending team, if applicable, and allow the situation to develop but the offence remains a deliberate knock on.
 
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