Development Leagues

[Phil E]

My questions arises from the recent court case which involved a development league.
I do not want to discuss the court case here, just the type of league.

What is meant by a development league and how should we referee it differently to any other league.
A development league may contain players new to the game, but may also include more experienced players.

There is to me a conflict of interest here. A development "game" is fine, but a development "league" by definition means both teams want to win, not necessarily learn.

So how do you balance the learning with the winning?
How do you adjust your refereeing style to achieve both aims?

 

[crossref]

it's a good question. I have had a quick google to see if there is any relevant guidance or narrative from the RFU about it, but no luck so far.

 

[Phil E]

As a for instance, I recently did a ladies development league game, and I gave a bit more instruction about what I wanted from the players, so more preventative refereeing and a bit more explanation of what they were doing wrong. Similar to how you would ref M&J.

However one of the players asked me if I could let a bit more go, as it was a development game (I am guessing knock-ons, slightly forward passes). My answer was no, because its a league game, so you still need to adhere to the laws, but I will try and assist you in understanding those laws.

Was this the correct approach? How do other people manage it?

 

[didds]

I think that's fair and reasonable Phil, unless you have received alternative instructions from the league organisers of course.

You will no doubt get "but last week's ref..." ;-)
And where do you draw the line? "Can you go light on the prop binding as we are all still learning". Then a broken neck occurs - culpability etc ? (extreme example I know but...)

 

[crossref]

I guess you could say that all age group leagues are development leagues?

(or nearly all or most, I dunno. But clearly a big point of age group is developing skills and players)

 

[crossref]

I intervened with a scrum half. She was rolling the ball right out of the ruck, and then pausing with her hands on the ball and looking round.
Completely oblivious to the fact that the ball was now most definitely out.

I considered that a safety risk, and effectively coached her out of doing it.

 

[crossref]

They couldn't grasp how to take a tap PK, and kept bashing the ball on their boot.

As it was a development game I allowed them to have a second chance.

But that didn't work out so well !

I also gave them a third chance, and then - when when they did it again - I finally gave a scrum.

Of course it was the scrum that made them pay attention and they didn't do it again.

Should have given the scrum first time around.

 

[BikingBud]

I am trying to isolate this from the other discussion but there are areas where we should focus on development game management so great topic.

I would offer that games are either or and cannot be both. An interesting point from the Charter:

"At first glance it is difficult to find the guiding principles behind a game which, to the casual observer, appears to be a mass of contradictions. It is perfectly acceptable, for example, to be seen to be exerting extreme physical pressure on an opponent in an attempt to gain possession of the ball, but not wilfully or maliciously to inflict injury.​

​

These are the boundaries within which players and referees must operate and it is the capacity to make this fine distinction, combined with control and discipline, both individual and collective, upon which the code of conduct depends."​

The context of the 2 scenarios, development and league, is different and should be managed differently so that we uphold this point from the Charter.

Perhaps one of the difficult aspects is the level of empathy, as you mention letting a few thing go and keeping the game going, not something development officials always do well. So development games with experienced official or everybody developing together?

Also the benefit of having more experienced players is tremendous, it can make your life, the referee, easier, it also brings on the less experienced players as they usually have knowledge, competence, confidence and better developed skills, these also allow the game to flow and we need these to rub off and set the standards for future players.

However, the key aspect is the base understanding that the game is for fun and this may not be captured or communicated by people who have a focus on winning rather than a shared interest of developing.

If it is development and it is drifting away from fun, enjoyment, improving then may time for a and reset.

A league is a league and there will no doubt be some modification to game management forthcoming.

 

[BikingBud]

They couldn't grasp how to take a tap PK, and kept bashing the ball on their boot.

As it was a development game I allowed them to have a second chance.

But that didn't work out so well !

I also gave them a third chance, and then - when when they did it again - I finally gave a scrum.

Of course it was the scrum that made them pay attention and they didn't do it again.

Should have given the scrum first time around.

So you nagged them then!

At any point did you, stop and explain what you were trying to achieve and also explain that if they"LISTEN" then you will try to make the game as fulfilling as it can be?

 

[crossref]

So you nagged them then!

At any point did you, stop and explain what you were trying to achieve and also explain that if they"LISTEN" then you will try to make the game as fulfilling as it can be?

naaah, I just blew my whistle a lot.

 

[chbg]

Not quite a refereeing response, but I played for 3 years in Norway in the Noughties (summer sport, great fun, lots of travel between cities). There were c 8 clubs, all with only one adult male team apiece. Apart from 12 nationalities representing us, there were the whole range of abilities on the field, Norwegian national props/locks (Erik Lund played abroad), lots of expats and Norwegian newbies. Players naturally adapted the physical force used depending on which players they were facing - more relying on skill. It was all league/championship rugby, but also development in order to encourage further players. Finals and inter-regional (East v West) matches played all out.

Lots of empathy required from the few referees, whose development was also necessary. All around very understanding.

 

[Volun-selected]

I don’t start reffing kids until U12, We do have some teams that are ready to play - and 3 of them have a lot of depth (one is very active for 8 up and the kids are well coached, another town has a lot of Argentine ex-pats over for a few years and their kids come in experienced, another town is full of Brits and Saffas and again have years of play).

And I also have the opposite with some kids that are having their first run out ever, some will have touch but this is their first season of tackle and uncontested scrums. If the coaches have really green teams, they’ll let me know and ask that I make it more of a teaching experience. I don’t coach but explain why I blew the whistle. (And explaining the laws to a group of 10 year old really does help clear it up in your own head.) For scrums, I almost have to walk them through it “Hooker 1, put your right foot here on the mark I made. Hooker 2 put your right foot just in front of hooker 1 - props bind on, hey look how you’re now already aligned…” etc.
Kids are less overwhelmed, have a better game, parents all say thanks.

The coaches are pretty good at avoiding carnage when the experienced kids meet green - they’ll swap players to level it out, lots of subs so everyone plays, and the result almost becomes secondary.

 

[Pinky2]

In Scotland Development Leagues used not to post a league table, rather they were used to set planned fixtures for the various teams in the league as well as having some consistency of standard of play in the league. For me, refereeing was not very different from the lower level leagues (who counted points) that I would normally referee, but there may have been more opportunity for discussion during the game about misunderstandings of law.

 

[crossref]

so I think we have so far
- heightened awareness of safety - especially to the possibility that players may be unwittingly putting themselves or others at risk
- more time and willingness to explain decisions, - acknowledging that players genuinely may not understand
- more preventative calls to reduce offending
- some coaching - to improve saftey and also to reduce offending

Could we add perhaps
- lower tolerance for 'trash talking' (goading/gloating etc)

 

[Jz558]

A very sad case. I think women's rugby, in particular, faces challenges surrounding disparate playing experience of team members which, as this case highlights needs additional focus from coaches/match officials. Clubs are keen, and incentivised, to start womens/girls teams and the wide range of skill sets within the same group, and between opposing teams can need very careful management. That said, I certainly played in numerous games when younger where it was clear that grudges were being harboured and players were looking for the right moment to extract revenge and no amount of preventitive calls or coaching by the referee was going to prevent it.

 

[crossref]

That said, I certainly played in numerous games when younger where it was clear that grudges were being harboured and players were looking for the right moment to extract revenge and no amount of preventitive calls or coaching by the referee was going to prevent it.

but this leads on to a question for us all --

if you are refereeing a game when it becomes "clear that grudges are being harboured and players are looking for the right moment to extract revenge"

How do you handle that ? What should you do ?

Is your answer different in a 'normal' league game, from a developmental league game.

I am not referring here to what ever was done/ not done in that case (we don't know)

but in general - what are the referee's responsibilities if/when they become aware that revenge is being planned?

 

[didds]

merely a suggestion as this is a very moot point...
i suppose you coud call the captain over for any player(s) concerned, and "have a word" along the lines you perceive certain players are seekng to extract revenge and retirbution and their actions will consititute foul play if that occurs and you will be very quick to use whatever sanctions are available to you. Dont mention any specific players, leave it open (lest fingered player delegates his retribution and "wasnt me ref and you didnt warn about him" etc)
I suppose the biggest issue is if it is the captain that is the player concerned, but then maybe its a direct word about HIS behaviour, and also maybe have the same conversation as above with the vice captain so everybody is clear. I suppose if the VC is also culpable then you coud ask them both who will take over as captain if they are both dismissed and include THYAT player etc etc !

sanctions available being cards of course, but aloso abandonment (but dont mention specifics and leave everything open...)

just my 2p of suggestion!

 

[crossref]

I mean one thing : generally if i have noticed that a player is losing his cool and getting worked up, I might welcome any opportunity that arises to YC him, give him a chance to calm down.

obviously that's a wait-and-pounce strategy - so not exactly fool proof

 

[Phil E]

If I know a player is seeing a red mist and clearly agitated I will speak to the Captain and explain what I have seen. I will make sure the Captain understands that the player is on my radar and I will be watching them like a hawk. I will then ask the Captain to speak to them and calm them down.

More often than not this will lead to the player being interchanged.

 

[crossref]

If I know a player is seeing a red mist and clearly agitated I will speak to the Captain and explain what I have seen. I will make sure the Captain understands that the player is on my radar and I will be watching them like a hawk. I will then ask the Captain to speak to them and calm then down.

More of then than not this will lead to the player being interchanged.

back to the theme of the thread - more likely to do this in a development league? or just the same in any game.
probably just the same in any game really?