Diving score in the corner...

[didds]

thoughts?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1619817953251454976

(you don't need a twitter account to see the video).

 

[Stu10]

I think this is an easy one to answer... he is clearly making a "normal" dive for the corner and the action/impact of the tackler lift his legs into the air to make it look more "spectacular"... 100% good try.

However, there are definitely other time where a player has dived in a fashion so that their body is angled so that they get the ball down in the corner before another body part lands in touch... I don't have an issue with this personally, and in every instance I can think of the action has been to avoid going into touch (and all their body except hands are outside the FOP) and not trying to dive over a defender on the goal line in front of them.

Other thoughts might be around the defender playing a man in the air, but WR have already clarified (Clarification 3-2022) that it's OK to tackle a player in the air that is diving for the tryline.

 

[Decorily]

For me he appears to 'dive' with an initial upwards motion which is more like an evasive action. He seems in fact to have gone over the 'tackler' so I think penalising him would be appropriate.

 

[Mipper]

I think this is an easy one to answer... he is clearly making a "normal" dive for the corner and the action/impact of the tackler lift his legs into the air to make it look more "spectacular"... 100% good try.

However, there are definitely other time where a player has dived in a fashion so that their body is angled so that they get the ball down in the corner before another body part lands in touch... I don't have an issue with this personally, and in every instance I can think of the action has been to avoid going into touch (and all their body except hands are outside the FOP) and not trying to dive over a defender on the goal line in front of them.

Other thoughts might be around the defender playing a man in the air, but WR have already clarified (Clarification 3-2022) that it's OK to tackle a player in the air that is diving for the tryline.

Yeah I’m with you Stu.
i don’t doubt that his intention was to avoid being tackled, but this to me is clearly a dive not a jump. My view is that this is the sort of thing that excites the game.

 

[Rich_NL]

It's a legal dive for the line. It was clarified that Jonny May was diving for the line against Italy, and that was far more borderline than this.

 

[Jarrod Burton]

It's a legal dive for the line. It was clarified that Jonny May was diving for the line against Italy, and that was far more borderline than this.

Not picking on your response in particular @Rich_NL, just that its the last one!

For mine its borderline and there is definitely some upward component rather than a flat dive.

I understand that people accept that this is diving for the line - and as I said I think he does jump upwards as part of the dive as his body position as he places the ball shows. My question is - if the defender runs across, stays on their feet to make the tackle and the attacker then hits the floor with their head/neck what's the call? Clearly the attacker has put themselves in a dangerous position - is it still the responsibility of the tackler to keep that player safe?

 

[Mipper]

Not picking on your response in particular @Rich_NL, just that its the last one!

For mine its borderline and there is definitely some upward component rather than a flat dive.

I understand that people accept that this is diving for the line - and as I said I think he does jump upwards as part of the dive as his body position as he places the ball shows. My question is - if the defender runs across, stays on their feet to make the tackle and the attacker then hits the floor with their head/neck what's the call? Clearly the attacker has put themselves in a dangerous position - is it still the responsibility of the tackler to keep that player safe?

For me, the difference is the danger to the tackler.

I understand there is an enormous amount of nuance around this, however if the ball carrier is jumping into a tackler, then there is considerable (and unexpected) danger to the tackler who would be set to tackle a player on terra firma.

Diving into a corner, whilst not risk free, can be reasonably expected.

As for your question Jarrod, I honestly think that it comes down to your (the ref) judgement. Is the tackler reckless? Or is it a genuine attempt to force the diver into touch? Don’t forget that it’s not in the tacklers interest to engineer a head/shoulder impact to the floor as that where the ball will be.

 

[Stu10]

I don't see why there cannot be an upward component when legitimately diving for the line... in theory it should lengthen your dive, so makes sense.

If the defender runs across and makes a tackle, then you need to look at the actions of the tackle. If they don't make a deliberate action to tip the attacker and it's a legal tackle (arm wrap, etc), then play on. However, it you think the tackler has committed foul play then you need to act.

 

[crossref]

All dives have an upward component, that's what distinguishes them from a fall

 

[Phil E]

All dives have an upward component, that's what distinguishes them from a fall

Really?
When I was learning to dive into a swimming pool I started by falling forward into the water, there was no upward component.
If I am standing tall I can dive forwards without going up first.

The main difference is that a dive is generally head first.
A jump is generally feet first.
A fall can be either/or.

 

[crossref]

Yes really.
Try diving with your knees stiff and locked to remove the upward component

 

[Stu10]

All dives have an upward component, that's what distinguishes them from a fall

Really?
When I was learning to dive into a swimming pool I started by falling forward into the water, there was no upward component.
If I am standing tall I can dive forwards without going up first.

The main difference is that a dive is generally head first.
A jump is generally feet first.
A fall can be either/or.

Were you falling into the swimming pool or diving?

Not sure I want to get into this, but after some thought, I think @crossref is correct for when your take-off and landing surfaces are at the same height. I think you can only dive with no upward component if you are diving off a ledge to finish at a lower level.

On a rugby pitch you are always going to (partially) press down into the ground to generate force for a dive, therefore there will be an opposite upward component in the dive itself.