Do you allow 9's to dummy it at the back of a ruck ?

[CrouchTPEngage]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GGOiR1VoQpwk_QOiwq59-kWwihx_m8ol/view?usp=sharing

Example video from today's Leicester Saracens game. If you believe that the 9 is intending to deceive defeneders into straying offside early and hence win a penalty, then can you blow and free-kick this sort of dummy ?
See it a lot and it seems relevant to the reasons why this law was introduced in the first place.

[LAWS]LAW 15.16 Players must NOT : Take any action to make opponents believe that the ruck has ended when it has not.
Sanction: Free-kick.[/LAWS]

 

[Decorily]

Naw....he just had a bit of a crick in his neck!!
Scrum halves don't cheat!

 

[Decorily]

I'd certainly be having a word!

 

[crossref]

This is something that we are certainly seeing creep in at the professional game, notably in the RWC and notably this morning I thought several times both Welsh scrum halves put their hands on the ball and twitched to try and tempt SA offside

You don't see it much at my level, bit oddly enough I penalised it last week, for the first time in I don't know how long

 

[SimonSmith]

Agree with Crossref. I don't see it at my levels.

 

[CrouchTPEngage]

This is something that we are certainly seeing creep in at the professional game, notably in the RWC and notably this morning I thought several times both Welsh scrum halves put their hands on the ball and twitched to try and tempt SA offside

You don't see it much at my level, bit oddly enough I penalised it last week, for the first time in I don't know how long

Cheers.
You just reminded me. First time in for 2 seasons. I gave turnover scrum for delaying too long at back of scrum. Close game, with only 1 minute left. there were a couple of very long "5-second" rucks after which I lost patience , counted the next one at 8 seconds after "use!" and blew the whistle. Usually I find a shout of "Use!" will get compliance within a about 2 seconds.

 

[didds]

Cheers.
You just reminded me. First time in for 2 seasons. I gave turnover scrum for delaying too long at back of scrum. Close game, with only 1 minute left. there were a couple of very long "5-second" rucks after which I lost patience , counted the next one at 8 seconds after "use!" and blew the whistle.

Hmmm... if it was time up would that then be game over?

didds

 

[Rich_NL]

In that case it's a FK for time wasting

 

[Phil E]

I'd certainly be having a word!

The referee on the day never mentioned it or spoke to the SH.

 

[Decorily]

The referee on the day never mentioned it or spoke to the SH.

Maybe the referee on the day didn't notice it or didn't think it was necessary to speak to the player. Maybe the referee did have a quick word on the fly or whatever that wasn't obvious.....I've absolutely no idea but my point is that if I noticed it I would have a word. Not saying that is the best/only way to deal with it!

 

[didds]

In that case it's a FK for time wasting

IF you were convinced it was deliberate?

didds

 

[crossref]

IF you were convinced it was deliberate?

didds

when I penalised it a couple of weeks ago, I am not sure whether it even was deliberate !
the scrum half was playing out of position and not comfortable in the role. Behind the ruck he was very twitchy, and I had warned him twice already. He actually apologised and explained that he was nervous (!) Perhaps he was pulling my leg, perhaps he wasn't.

at a subsequent ruck he more than twitched, and the entire opposing back line moved up, thinking the ball was out. . I was similarly fooled - I thought he was passing it! So this time I gave the FK. It didn't happen again

 

[Arabcheif]

Was playing in a game at the start of the season (this year). 9 Picked up the ball took a step to pass. But there was a player in the road (our player), so he stopped the pass and passed in another direction. The ref pinged him for it, tbh I didn't think anything of it at the time but after the match I started to think, hang on the ball was out of the ruck. He's perfectly entitled to dummy then. Am I wrong?

 

[Decorily]

Was playing in a game at the start of the season (this year). 9 Picked up the ball took a step to pass. But there was a player in the road (our player), so he stopped the pass and passed in another direction. The ref pinged him for it, tbh I didn't think anything of it at the time but after the match I started to think, hang on the ball was out of the ruck. He's perfectly entitled to dummy then. Am I wrong?

That wasn't a dummy pass....it was a dummy ref!

 

[crossref]

Scrum halves are allowed to dummy a pass with the ball in their hands
What they can't do is dummy a pass when the ball is still in the ruck

 

[Arabcheif]

Scrum halves are allowed to dummy a pass with the ball in their hands
What they can't do is dummy a pass when the ball is still in the ruck

Yeah, I know this. I can only guess the ref felt that he dummied it from the base of the ruck. As I said at the time that's what I think he'd blew for as that's what I thought I'd saw too. But it wasn't until later I realised that the ball was out of the ruck and the dummy was a pass in hands, not from the ruck.