Do you mind wearing this mic

[crossref]

Grassroots game, one of the coaches is setting up a camera to record it

"Would you be OK to wear this mic, so that we have referee audio on the video? It really helps our analysis as then we can understand what the ref was thinking, and what decisions are for "

What do you think ?

 

[didds]

Good question CR.
Do "grassroots level" refs get training in comms - which possibly includes such things as what to say, how to say it, and more importantly what NOT to say!
I can see that refs may not wish to potentially expose themselves to being caught out - it cold end up being a stick with which to beat one with. On the other hand it seems - on the face of it - to be a reasonable request.

Turn the tables? Say "yes" but only if the opposition were provided with a copy of the video and audio also - or the entire league's clubs ? (assuming its a league game) so that the playing field is kept level to all? And of course you've no way to police that anyway, nor any "penalty" if they say yes, but then dont
maybe the answer is a polite "no" but you are happy to discuss any areas that were unlear in the bar afterwards, in a constructive dialogue, after the 30 minute "window" has passed etc ?

Interesting thread CR

 

[Marc Wakeham]

When I wear comms, it is to do a job. that is to talk to my ARs or to talk to the ref if I'm an AR. It is not for the club's "entertainment". I have not received training as such and don't get to use them often.

Would I consider a club listening in? Propbably not. Certainly not unless BOTH sides were able to listen in.

 

[Phil E]

Thoughts on this.

Assessors listen in to our communications, and advise us on inconsistent or unhelpful wording used during the match. This is a learning lesson for the ref. Many ref's are oblivious of the language they use during a game and when presented with it after a game are sometimes genuinely shocked with what they have said on tape. For this reason I would say no.

On the other hand all the player hear what we say during the game, so why shouldn't the coach, so that would be a yes.

I understand why they want it and if I was a coach I would want it as well, they want to hear if the ref is giving preventative comms and if so why are their players ignoring it? That is fine. but there would also be the cases where the ref says something just as the situation changes, making his comms look wrong.

On the whole I would agree providing I get a copy of the video for my own development, and would be happy to answer questions mid week (not after the game). I see no reason to not be transparent, what are we trying to hide? If you want to climb the ladder you are going to have to get used to this.

 

[crossref]

one important point then is : would the coaches be able to listen to the ref, in real time, during the game?

if that was the case I think you'd have to say 'no' as you would be giving one side an advantage compared to the other

but if they can't listen in, and the audio is just being recorded as a sound track to the video, for post match analysis, it doesn't seem unreasonable.


[Background : this didn't happen to me, but I thought it was going to -- the coach was setting up his camera and I thought that I saw he was fiddling with a microphone/comms set of some sort, and he walked toward me. I thought he was going to ask me, but no, he was just tidying up and put the comms kit (or whatever it was) in his bag. So it didn't arise, but it set me thinking...]

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

At NL we, the ARs and the referee communicate via AxiWi radios. The referee is also provided with a Sennheiser transmitter that forms the soundtrack to the video that the home team are required to produce.

I am not certain the home coaches can hear the referee in real time (they can't hear ARs because we're on a separate system) because they sometimes ask us about situations where if they could hear then it would be apparent.

I know sometimes the sound on the video fails and we remind ourselves to turn the Sennheiser off at half-time!!!!

In terms of the request I wouldn't be unhappy but if they hung me out to dry it'd be the last time and I'd suggest my Society spread that advice wider.

Does your Society have view?

I would ask for a copy if I went with the request.

 

[SimonSmith]

1. You give me a copy later.
2. If you're listening live, so do the oppositions.

Then yes. My old club used to do this, didn't listen live,and we shared the video with Ref Soc. Can't see an issue myself.

 

[didds]

1. You give me a copy later.

what happens if you dont gets ent a copy?
other than next time you ref them you refuse the request.

 

[Dickie E]

we have had live stream here for a number of years with ref comms clearly being offered.

Note: remember to turn off the mike at half time. I remember a gay referee saying to an AR during half time about what he thought about the attractiveness of one of the players

 

[SimonSmith]

what happens if you dont gets ent a copy?
other than next time you ref them you refuse the request.

I suspect that if that were the case, then every Society member would refuse the request.

 

[Drift]

What’s the harm in doing it? If by doing so it improves the standard of rugby in the club, and hopefully the competition, what exactly is the downside? The teams hear you breathing heavily and sometimes muddling your words?

I would argue if your communication changes when you wear a microphone vs when you don’t then it’s probably something you need to work on.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I wouldn't have a problem with it so long as I received a copy. Many clubs I ref now use VEO video technology and I receive a link if I ask for it.
I've never been asked to wear a mic except when being assessed. you soon forget about the mic and the regular criticism I get from the assessors is I swear too much

 

[menace]

I would say take every opportunity you can to be mic'ed up and taped if you can get a hold of the video (regardless if both sides get it or not). You'll get more out of it for your ref development than arguably any other coaching. Not doing so is a missed opportunity to self assess your own ability and performance.

 

[Dickie E]

an interesting general division of views:

UK refs - treat it with suspicion, can they use it against me, what does my Society think, don't do it unless there's something in it for me, don't do favours for one team over the other

Aus refs - knock yourself out, there's no downside, at best its a great learning opportunity for you, at worst its a great learning opportunity for the team

 

[crossref]

A good observation (that stings a little)
I think what you call the 'aussie' response is better

 

[Dickie E]

A good observation (that stings a little)
I think what you call the 'aussie' response is better

I was being a bit tongue in cheek but there did appear to be a theme

 

[SimonSmith]

an interesting general division of views:

UK refs - treat it with suspicion, can they use it against me, what does my Society think, don't do it unless there's something in it for me, don't do favours for one team over the other

Aus refs - knock yourself out, there's no downside, at best its a great learning opportunity for you, at worst its a great learning opportunity for the team

I had a conversation about this kind of thing professionally, with a colleague who was worried about the person we were having to do an investigation recording us.

My guidance ended up being "you only need to be worried about being recorded if you think you're actually going to say something you shouldn't"

 

[crossref]

I "you only need to be worried about being recorded if you think you're actually going to say something you shouldn't"

Well, in that situation you would also worry about the recording being misleadingly edited and Def would want to have your own recording

 

[Volun-selected]

Given the amount I talk to myself under my breath as I watch a game (“yes, taken in, watch the offside, that was dumb...” - aloud but not enough to be heard) my worry is they’d think I’m a lunatic with Tourette’s.

 

[Stu10]

Given the amount I talk to myself under my breath as I watch a game (“yes, taken in, watch the offside, that was dumb...” - aloud but not enough to be heard) my worry is they’d think I’m a lunatic with Tourette’s.

I agree... anyone listening to me voicing my thought processes throughout the game might question my ability at times!