Dylan "54 weeks" Hartley

Ian_Cook


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All of the indecretions of his career in a nice video. Ian I know how much you like Hartley, did you make it? :hap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRDQDDgYFE0


I'd like to take credit for it, but no, its not my handiwork.

The guy really is a walking sanction isn't he? As a thug, he's right up there with Bakkies Botha, Richard Loe, Michael Brial and Danny Grewcock.
 

Pegleg

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He sure is. Rugby does not these people. They are a relic of the old days when all sides has one (or two) "enforcers" Today they are just a liability. England without Hartley are a much better bet for the RWC.
 

Browner

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England have a unblemished record of keeping their players disciplined at the World cup .

In fact of the teams likely to do well its South Africa,Tonga, Samoa, and Canada who have a poor record of keeping their players focussed.:biggrin:


Rugby world cup Sending off /Red Card records.

Team1987199119951999200320072011Total
23px-Flag_of_Argentina.svg.png
Argentina
11
23px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png
Australia
11
23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png
Canada
213
23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png
England
0
23px-Flag_of_Fiji.svg.png
Fiji
11
23px-Flag_of_France.svg.png
France
0
23px-Flag_of_Georgia.svg.png
Georgia
0
23px-IRFU_flag.svg.png
Ireland
0
23px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png
Italy
0
23px-Flag_of_C%C3%B4te_d%27Ivoire.svg.png
Ivory Coast
0
23px-Flag_of_Japan.svg.png
Japan
0
23px-Flag_of_Namibia.svg.png
Namibia
11
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand
0
23px-Flag_of_Portugal.svg.png
Portugal
0
23px-Flag_of_Romania.svg.png
Romania
0
23px-Flag_of_Russia.svg.png
Russia
0
23px-Flag_of_Samoa.svg.png
Samoa
112
23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg.png
Scotland
0
23px-Flag_of_South_Africa.svg.png
South Africa
112
23px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png
Spain
0
23px-Flag_of_Tonga.svg.png
Tonga
1113
23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png
United States
0
23px-Flag_of_Uruguay.svg.png
Uruguay
0
23px-Flag_of_Wales_2.svg.png
Wales
112
23px-Flag_of_Zimbabwe.svg.png
Zimbabwe
0
Total224402216

:eng:
 

Ian_Cook


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The relevance of which is zero.

New Zealand also has an unblemished record. This doesn't mean that Richard Loe and Troy Flavell weren't thugs!!
 
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SimonSmith


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If memory serves, Canada got screwed because of a mini brawl in which Gareth Rees got RCed.

the risk Hartley represents isn't just the RC - it's going down to 14 men for 10 minutes which is usually accompanied by points as well.
 

Pegleg

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The relevance of which is zero.

New Zealand also has an unblemished record. This doesn't mean that Richard Loe and Troy Flavell weren't thugs!!

Indeed.

Of course there is always a reluctance to Red card a player at a show piece event like the RWC. Take the last one where a number of Tip tackles were cited after the referee had not dealt with them correctly on the field. Stats are dangerous tools in the hands of some. You can use a stat to prove anything if you have an agenda.
 

Ian_Cook


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Indeed.

Of course there is always a reluctance to Red card a player at a show piece event like the RWC. Take the last one where a number of Tip tackles were cited after the referee had not dealt with them correctly on the field. Stats are dangerous tools in the hands of some. You can use a stat to prove anything if you have an agenda.

Some people tend to use statistics in much the same way that a drunk uses a lamp-post; for support rather than illumination.

I find it somewhat hypocritical to take such hard-nosed stand on retaliation, yet be only too willing to excuse this poor misunderstood lad thug, who has made violent and distasteful retaliation into an art form.
 

OB..


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You can use a stat to prove anything if you have an agenda.
Technically, you cannot use statistics to actually prove anything. The mathematics gives you an estimate of probability, and does not produce certainty. Non-statisticians (particularly politicians) make all sorts of statistically invalid claims.
 

crossref


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Indeed.

Of course there is always a reluctance to Red card a player at a show piece event like the RWC.

i was thinking the opposite : 16 RC in 7 RWC. To me that seems to show that refs will issue a RC, RWC or not.

But I guess we need some stats to compare to
- how many games played in the word cups
- how does the RC/game stat compare with international rugby geenrally
 

Simon Thomas


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Technically, you cannot use statistics to actually prove anything. The mathematics gives you an estimate of probability, and does not produce certainty. Non-statisticians (particularly politicians) make all sorts of statistically invalid claims.

exactly OB - I spend my working life bending, adapting, repackaging etc statistics (and now Big Data) to "prove" consumer behaviours and media consumption in relation to our clients' brands and services
 

Pegleg

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Technically, you cannot use statistics to actually prove anything. The mathematics gives you an estimate of probability, and does not produce certainty. Non-statisticians (particularly politicians) make all sorts of statistically invalid claims.

Is that not the meaning of the comment? For crying out loud!
 

Pegleg

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exactly OB - I spend my working life bending, adapting, repackaging etc statistics (and now Big Data) to "prove" consumer behaviours and media consumption in relation to our clients' brands and services

And that's why I fast forward through the adverts and take my newspaper online. So I dont' watch / read the "liathon".
 

Browner

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in terms of :rc: received, Don't forget to factor in that some countries have made more RWC appearances :france::eng::nz::aus: than others :wales: :rsa:



:biggrin:
 

crossref


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Technically, you cannot use statistics to actually prove anything. The mathematics gives you an estimate of probability, and does not produce certainty..

it rather depends on what you mean by 'prove'. Certainly in everyday usage statistics provides proof - for instance a paternity suit might be settled to everyone's satisfaction with a DNA test.
 

Rushforth


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it rather depends on what you mean by 'prove'. Certainly in everyday usage statistics provides proof - for instance a paternity suit might be settled to everyone's satisfaction with a DNA test.

I believe OB.. means https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_hypothesis

Because to be really technical about it, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Fo..._of_Principia_Mathematica_and_Related_Systems

Your example isn't great. For example, Alice gets pregnant. She wasn't planning to, but chooses not to have an abortion. To the best of her knowledge, she only had one partner, Bob. The relationship wasn't long enough to progress past the safe-sex stage, but accidents will happen. Bob's identical twin brother Charlie, who was given up for adoption by their mother Maria at birth, had happened to meet Alice one night, enjoyed the one-night stand, and nobody was any the wiser. Then the DNA test was done - this is back a while, and they weren't as good as people thought - and Bob accepted his responsibility, because you can't just prove anything with statistics, right? And then Dylan came in and head-butted him for shagging his sister, and there was blood all over the place, but Charlie got arrested for it because he was a known drug-trafficker and his DNA evidence was there. (Sorry, I'll stop)
 

OB..


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it rather depends on what you mean by 'prove'. Certainly in everyday usage statistics provides proof - for instance a paternity suit might be settled to everyone's satisfaction with a DNA test.
The word "prove" is often loosely used. For example the existence of the Higgs Boson (or more properly, the Higgs Field) was "proved" to scientific satisfaction by statistical tests - but all the scientists understand that. They also know that further research might lead to different conclusions, as has often happened in the past (eg phlogiston).

Statistics suggested a link between smoking and lung cancer, but it was only proved by showing clinically that carcinogens in the inhaled product could cause cancer in the lungs. (Of course the actual incidence of cancer is still down to chance - some people get away with it!).

Too many people take "prove" too literally. Some have claimed that a particularly striking result has "proved" that astrology is true. They failed to understand that if you do a million trials, you actually expect a 1 in a million event to occur.

Over the years I have spent far too much time dealing with misunderstandings of this sort.
 

Pegleg

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Too many people do not understand that. Glad to know you did.

I can't help stupid people. A simple reading of it tells you it can not be true. After all the same stats can't actually prove two different claims (unless you a politician or marketing guru). I als othought the rider - the agenda issue) would point intelegent referees in the right direction.
 
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