England in NZ

[Toby Warren]

What should be a cracking tour is being hamstrung by an odd scheduling decesion. Anyone know why the dates were agreed in the knowledge that England can't select from their top 2 sides?

I think it's odd to say the very least.

 

[Dickie E]

ready-made excuse when the Pomanians get smacked?

 

[Toby Warren]

We'd get smacked with a full team......

 

[OB..]

One report said that when the proposed schedule was sent out by the IRB the then RFU hierarchy passed it on the nod, failing to see any problems. New Zealand were not prepared to change it now because it would have caused them problems with S15 matches.

You can't fit a quart into a pint pot.

 

[Simon Thomas]

I heard a similar thing to OB - RFU agreed the dates on the nod based on the IRB International window dates and the first international match day, which it seems RFU and NZRFU interpret differently.

RFU / Lancaster need to get over it, select a Development XV for the first test, and use it constructively to identify potential RWC2015 squad players. For the second and third Tests the (fit) Sarries and Northampton players can join in too

They are already doing that, as today at Lensbury there is a 20 man squad session with just players from Exeter Chiefs, Gloucester Rugby, London Irish, Newcastle Falcons, Sale Sharks and Worcester Warriors (incl Danny C). Good opportunity for fringe / outlier players to be seen.

As the other clubs' players become available first the squad to play Baa-Baa and then NZ touring squad will be firmed up, and finally Sarries and Northampton players can join after the PRL Final.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I heard a similar thing to OB - RFU agreed the dates on the nod based on the IRB International window dates and the first international match day, which it seems RFU and NZRFU interpret differently.

Yep..

9.7 Global Release Periods
There are two Global Release Periods.
(a) The June window
The Right to Release for Matches shall apply to each of the senior
National Representative Team, the next senior National
Representative Team and the Under 20 National Representative
Team of a Union in respect of all International Matches, International
Tours and International Tournaments played over a period of three
weekends in June each year, save in a Rugby World Cup year,
during which year the June window shall not operate in respect of
Unions that qualified for the Rugby World Cup. Unless Council
approves otherwise the three weekends in June shall be the second,
third and fourth weekends.

June 1st is a Sunday, so in NZ we would consider that to be the first weekend in June. That would make the weekend of June 7/8, 14/15 and 21/22 to be the 2nd, 3rd and 4th weekends as per the regulation, so those are the days the series is scheduled for.

However, the iRB considers the weekend of 7/8 June to be the first, which would make June 14/15, 21/22 and 28/29 to be the 2nd, 3rd and 4th weekends.

 

[Simon Thomas]

A pity the yoof trainee in Dublin could not be more specific and said the first full weekend to prevent such different interpretations. Rugby was (and still is for the bulk of the adult Game in UK) traditionally a Saturday sport.

 

[Toby Warren]

What a farce we make of the game sometimes.

 

[Browner]

A pity the yoof trainee in Dublin could not be more specific and said the first full weekend to prevent such different interpretations. Rugby was (and still is for the bulk of the adult Game in UK) traditionally a Saturday sport.

June 1st is definately the first 'Sunday' in June.

If you recognise a weekend to consist of two days (sat & sun) then 7/8 june is the first weekend.

 

[Simon Thomas]

June 1st is definately the first 'Sunday' in June.

If you recognise a weekend to consist of two days (sat & sun) then 7/8 june is the first weekend.

Browner - apparently not in New Zealand :biggrin: I wonder how Islamic countries interpret it ?

 

[OB..]

Why not just specify Saturdays rather than weekends?

 

[Browner]

Browner - apparently not in New Zealand :biggrin:

Yep, someone told me the Kiwi's made an inadvertent error on their 'weekend' interpretation & scheduling that happens to advantage them .....firstly my rib popped with laughter, then I replied that only an idiot would offer that 'anything NZ did regarding rugby tour scheduling wasn't fully considered'

Ping, ooops there goes another rib ...... : )

 

[beckett50]

Why not just specify Saturdays rather than weekends?

Maybe one of the Unions should get a 'Law' clarification from the iRB? :deadhorse:

 

[Ian_Cook]

What constitutes the first weekend of a month is different in different countries. FFS what actuially constitutes a "weekend" can be different too. Some countries have Friday/Saturday weekends (Bahrain for example) and some have Thursday/Friday (Iran). Some have a six day working week with only one weekend day (India/Thailand)

I have always regarded the first weekend day (Saturday or Sunday) to be in the first weekend of any month. That is a cultural thing, and just because we do it differently here does not make us wrong. I find the Anglo-centric mocking of other's traditions exhibited in this thread to be distasteful.

In England you have "Bank Holiday Mondays", some of them without any apparent reason, e.g. the "Early May", "Spring" and "Summer" bank holidays. Its a cultural tradition which you share with the USA as it happens, but not with NZ or Australia. Yes, we have Mondays when the banks are closed too, but they always observe, celebrate or commemorate something, e.g, in NZ we have Easter Monday, Queen's Birthday, Labour Day, Christmas Day. Boxing Day, New Year's Day, and sometimes ANZAC Day (April 25) and Waitangi Day (February 6), if they happen to fall on a Monday. Individual Provincial anniversaries are also observed on Mondays.

Once again the iRB has shown its inability to write Regulations/Laws unambiguously. Simply using "first full weekend" is not enough for the reasons I mentioned earlier. IMO, they should simply drop the reference to "weekend" and specify the actual days, e.g. something like "The June window shall run from, and including, the first Saturday to, and including, the Sunday after the third Saturday". This will work unambiguously for every month of every year.

 

[crossref]

What day does labour day fall on then

 

[The umpire]

What day does labour day fall on then

"Labour Day is an annual holiday to celebrate the achievements of workers. Labour Day has its origins in the labour union movement, specifically the eight-hour day movement, which advocated eight hours for work, eight hours for recreation, and eight hours for rest."

 

[Ian_Cook]

What day does labour day fall on then

Last Monday in October (different in USA where its the first Monday in September. In Australia, IIRC it differs from State to State)

FYI: Queen's Birthday in NZ is the first Monday in June.

 

[Ian_Cook]

"Labour Day is an annual holiday to celebrate the achievements of workers. Labour Day has its origins in the labour union movement, specifically the eight-hour day movement, which advocated eight hours for work, eight hours for recreation, and eight hours for rest."

Yes. that is why is also known as "Eight Hours Day" in Tasmania.

Its called "May Day" in the Northern Territory, the only place in Aussie that observes in it May. Everywhere else its the first or second Monday in March or the first Monday in October.

 

[Taff]

A pity the yoof trainee in Dublin could not be more specific and said the first full weekend to prevent such different interpretations.

Why not just specify Saturdays rather than weekends?

What's wrong with just using dates?

 

[Browner]

Tinkering with IRB wording as suggested is futile, the kiwis would find a way to tweak any regs in their favour. ......claiming the match was at night and there was no sun, so it couldnt be considered a sun-day!!

Just like they did with Bachop or Sivivatu ( new thread?)

They can't be trusted to act sensibly on anything, as giving women the first vote proved xx : )

Runs for cover !