England v Scotland lifting tackle YC

TheBFG


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That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

So people's thoughts on the early YC in the Eng v Sco match?

Looked like he landed on his upper back and then force of the tackle meant he got whiplash for his head to hit the ground too, which I guess resulted in the HIA requirement and him not coming back
 

Phil E


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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

It's never too early.

Wouldn't have been surprised if it was Red, but not surprised at Yellow either. I saw it as landing on his back after his leg was lifted high in the air, so it would have been a Yellow from me.
 

FlipFlop


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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

Saw it as landing on back, so not surprised yellow.

BUT....

It could easily be argued for red. Either by saying Daly was driven into the ground; or by saying it was Dalys action to roll his head up that prevented head to ground contact first.

I think the official got it right on the day, but wouldn't be surprised if there was a citing, so as to re-examine it.
 

crossref


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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

Didn't Daly pass the HIA, come back on, only to leave the pitch again because he still had double vision

WTF is going on with HIA? They seem to be simply a mechanism to allow head-injured players in tier 1 rugby to continue to play
 

DocY


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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

I thought it'd be a YC followed by a citing and a ban - such is the way these things go.
 

ChuckieB

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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

He was a lucky boy to see YC only in my opinion. I could certainly err on the side of a RC on this one and be happy with such a call.

I don't now the procedures but in the absence of the RC on the day you might think a citing might be warranted. On the top of the back, at the base of the neck, is most certainly dangerous.
 

didds

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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

As we've discussed before, under the outcome-based-sanction AIUI the YC was the "correct" decision. neither FB nor Daly was in control of Daly's descent (though maybe ED managed to pull his head up) and FB basically "got lucky".

didds
 

winchesterref


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It's not come up yet that I've seen, so let me be the first.


Thoughts?

Note that it has now been cited.
Telegraph - Fraser Brown cited

"Fraser Brown, the Scotland hooker, has been cited by the independent citing commissioner at Saturday's RBS 6 Nations match between England and Scotland at Twickenham," read a Six Nations statement.

"The cited offence, dangerous tackling, took place in the second minute of the match in which the cited player was yellow carded.

"The disciplinary hearing, before an independent Six Nations Disciplinary Committee of three, is scheduled for London on Tuesday, March 14."
 

winchesterref


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My first thought was RC from kick off to full time, regardless of when the incident occurs. Anyone not reaching for a RC here?

If you are with a RC, and you're in the middle here - with all the TV, 80k crowd pressures, high profile coaches - do you?
 

ChuckieB

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My first thought was RC from kick off to full time, regardless of when the incident occurs. Anyone not reaching for a RC here?

If you are with a RC, and you're in the middle here - with all the TV, 80k crowd pressures, high profile coaches - do you?

You're in the middle on merit and you have other highly experienced and expert officials in support. It was a call he made, incorrect in my opinion, but I don't think you could suggest he bottled it.

At least the Citing panel or whatever will be able to consider all the evidence.
 

winchesterref


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You're in the middle on merit and you have other highly experienced and expert officials in support. It was a call he made, incorrect in my opinion, but I don't think you could suggest he bottled it.

At least the Citing panel or whatever will be able to consider all the evidence.

Agreed.

The "do you give it" question is not a suggestion of bottling it, more do you err on the side of caution and YC in knowing that citing can pick it up if needed?
 

CrouchTPEngage


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Seemed especially unfair as
(a) if its outcome based (and Daly had to go off immediately and played only another 5 mins afterwards ) then it should be a red.
(b) Daly got a red for something a bit similar in the 5th minute of the Argentina game in November. He could be forgiven for expecting consistent protection from the referees.
It was dangerous. That could have ended Daly's career. That deserves a red in the current climate.
 

ChuckieB

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You're in the middle on merit and you have other highly experienced and expert officials in support. It was a call he made, incorrect in my opinion, but I don't think you could suggest he bottled it.

At least the Citing panel or whatever will be able to consider all the evidence.

I seek to clarify my earlier statement. I believe there was sufficient evidence to support a RC. I am not saying he made an incorrect decision.

Gosh, I am starting to sound like a lawyer!
 

didds

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Agreed.

The "do you give it" question is not a suggestion of bottling it, more do you err on the side of caution and YC in knowing that citing can pick it up if needed?

but in the knowledge that a 78 minute RC will have a far larger impact than a 10 minute YC.

didds
 

VM75

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Measured against this article, i'd say that both players might consider themselves very fortunate

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...eft-him-paralysed-report-20161218-gtdrx2.html

"Former Newcastle Knights player Alex McKinnon has reportedly launched legal proceedings against the NRL for the tackle that left him paralysed in 2014.According to News Corp, McKinnon sent a legal letter to the NRL last week to instigate proceedings for compensation. It is reported that Melbourne Storm's Jordan McLean, who made the tackle, will also be personally pursued."

At one point FB had ED's feet pointing vertically to 12o'clock , the speed at which FB jerked his elbow up indicates his intention to tip ED IMO, WTF was FB thinking.
 

didds

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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

I thought it'd be a YC followed by a citing and a ban - such is the way these things go.

I have a bit an issue with this process/concept.

Cos a post match citing and ban effectively being a post match RC suggests that in match it SHOULD have been a RC.

NOT Rc'ing a player that SHOULD have been RCd has huge material effects on the match in question.

didds
 

Thunderhorse1986


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Seemed especially unfair as
(a) if its outcome based (and Daly had to go off immediately and played only another 5 mins afterwards ) then it should be a red.
(b) Daly got a red for something a bit similar in the 5th minute of the Argentina game in November. He could be forgiven for expecting consistent protection from the referees.
It was dangerous. That could have ended Daly's career. That deserves a red in the current climate.

Referencing the bold above, AIUI, outcome based does not mean "was the player injured?". It means was the outcome of the player being lifted through the horizontal / what was the outcome of the unfair challenge in the air? Then you have options generally based on landing (some may have slightly different interpretations of the below?):

1) Player bought back to ground safely - play on (but probably have a word with the tackler at next stoppage)
2) Player not bought to ground safely, landing on legs/bum - penalty only
3) Player landed on his back, shoulder - PK & YC
4) Player landed on this neck, head - PK and RC

A player could get a career ending injury through a perfectly legal tackle. So outcome based is not to do with injury but on outcome of the challenge in terms of landing point (which you could argue is associated with potential injury).
 
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