England v Scotland lifting tackle YC

TheBFG


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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

NOT Rc'ing a player that SHOULD have been RCd has huge material effects on the match in question.

didds

Not in this game it didn't :eng:
 

DocY


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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

I have a bit an issue with this process/concept.

Cos a post match citing and ban effectively being a post match RC suggests that in match it SHOULD have been a RC.

NOT Rc'ing a player that SHOULD have been RCd has huge material effects on the match in question.

didds

You're quite right. It shouldn't be the case, but it seems to have been for the last few years. Most noticeably during the last world cup.

We can only speculate about the reasons for this, but having heard some top flight refs talk about it they feel the citing commissioners are over zealous - applying the exact letter of the law to every situation with no empathy and not considering any mitigating factors that referees would. But I guess they would say that ;)

That's not to say the decisions are always wrong, but if the wording of a directive is poor, they still treat it as gospel.
 

didds

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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

I have a bit an issue with this process/concept.

Cos a post match citing and ban effectively being a post match RC suggests that in match it SHOULD have been a RC.

NOT Rc'ing a player that SHOULD have been RCd has huge material effects on the match in question.

didds

I shouold also add that conversely if protocols say the actiojn requires a sanction of a YC, then an effective RC level ban from the commissioners seems wrong also. witness this Brown?daly tip tackle. If the call is YC cos Daly landed on his back and FB gets a YC (as he did) then that should be the end opf it.

AQt the moment it seems that there isn't joined up thinking or agreement at the highest levels as to what constitutes a YC/RC. Particularly when use of replay and TMO/Ref interaction means there should be almost no "accidents" in real time.

didds
 

crossref


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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

You're quite right. It shouldn't be the case, but it seems to have been for the last few years. Most noticeably during the last world cup.

We can only speculate about the reasons for this, but having heard some top flight refs talk about it they feel the citing commissioners are over zealous - applying the exact letter of the law to every situation with no empathy and not considering any mitigating factors that referees would. But I guess they would say that ;)

That's not to say the decisions are always wrong, but if the wording of a directive is poor, they still treat it as gospel.

it works the other way as well, don't forget that in the RWC the disciplinirary panels rejected every single citing for tip tackles, and punished the offenders for lesser, merely dangerous tackles.
 

Paule23


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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

I shouold also add that conversely if protocols say the actiojn requires a sanction of a YC, then an effective RC level ban from the commissioners seems wrong also. witness this Brown?daly tip tackle. If the call is YC cos Daly landed on his back and FB gets a YC (as he did) then that should be the end opf it.

AQt the moment it seems that there isn't joined up thinking or agreement at the highest levels as to what constitutes a YC/RC. Particularly when use of replay and TMO/Ref interaction means there should be almost no "accidents" in real time.

didds

I think one of the arguments for RC, hence a fair citing, is ED landed on his shoulder/back only as a result of curling his head up. Without that it would have been head first. You could argue this is similar to putting an arm out to prevent landing on your head, which should still be RC.
 

didds

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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

I think one of the arguments for RC, hence a fair citing, is ED landed on his shoulder/back only as a result of curling his head up. Without that it would have been head first. You could argue this is similar to putting an arm out to prevent landing on your head, which should still be RC.

I would agree - butthe hand/arm out, or head curl is as clear on the day to a TMO+ref (via big screen replay), so I'm not sure what a citing commisioner adds here. Apart form somebody sayiong "well I think despite the ref and TMO having no more than I have, II think they got it wrong"

didds

didds
 

dave_clark


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Re: That tackle, Red/Yellow/too early/one for the citing .......

I have a bit an issue with this process/concept.

Cos a post match citing and ban effectively being a post match RC suggests that in match it SHOULD have been a RC.

NOT Rc'ing a player that SHOULD have been RCd has huge material effects on the match in question.

didds

chopper (formerly of this parish) used to argue regularly for this. and i can understand the argument - that the spectacle was king, and that anything that detracted from this (such as 14 vs 15) was to be avoided.

i don't agree with this viewpoint, but i can understand it.
 

didds

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I'm not fussed about the spectacle. But the principle.

YCing a player that the commission gave aRC length ban to can only mean

* the ref got it wrong OR
* the commissioner got it wrong

If its the former the players team has benefited(unless its in the last ten minutes of the match of chose).

Didds
 

OB..


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I'm not fussed about the spectacle. But the principle.

YCing a player that the commission gave aRC length ban to can only mean

* the ref got it wrong OR
* the commissioner got it wrong
* a different view of the criteria
* a different view of the facts


If its the former the players team has benefited(unless its in the last ten minutes of the match of chose).

Didds
A couple more possibilities.
 

winchesterref


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I thought we initially had to disregard the actions of the ball carrier, such as twisting their head away or putting arms/hands down. More and more this seems to be being used to mitigate the defending player's actions?
 

DocY


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I thought we initially had to disregard the actions of the ball carrier, such as twisting their head away or putting arms/hands down. More and more this seems to be being used to mitigate the defending player's actions?

Perhaps the nonsense this caused when evaluating tackles in the air has meant the BC's actions are now considered less important in other sorts of dangerous tackle, too.

Or perhaps they couldn't conclusively say that the outcome would have been different but for the BC's actions.
 
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